[pvs]

Originally Posted by samcrow2

I am very displeased with both party's. Both go to Washington where there are five lobbyists handing out money for luminance and we get the shaft. Until we have meaningful campaigne reforem where money is take out and I mean for every corporation its nothing but a big shell game. They get rich and we get the bill and screwed and no dinner.

+1 ... I agree. It's something I've seen for years, but it has only gotten worse with Citizens' United, and the current crop of cr4p in DC and elsewhere. Color me jaded these days, and for the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by Redraven

"I have been aware of that for many years, that is why I am a Registered Independent.
I vote for the PERSON, not the party.
Now, if the parties would just give us candidates worth voting for...

Independent here, too, always HAVE been (though I haven't "Registered" with them ). Admittedly, I usually wind up voting [D], as I am more for the masses and less for the elite, but it no longer seems to make any difference.

Originally Posted by NHartphotog

That's cause there is only ONE party, and it's a joke.

+1 ... This is the way I see it these days, too. Voting doesn't seem to make any difference, as nobody running ever has any interest for the whole of society, just their own fringe and special interest groups. What they SAY and what they ACCOMPLISH are complete dichotomies.

Originally Posted by jimj

Absolutely! With a few exceptions it's just crooks changing seats but still doing the same things. This is where I get lost, when people slavishly follow one party or another no matter what. Crook,liar or cheat? No problem he's a Dem or Rep so we've got to support him/her.

+1 ... Aye, that's about the size of it. It amazes me that any GOOD idea can (and IS) turned to cr4p by the time it runs through the houses and becomes "law". And the resulting turd is always benefiting those same special interests, and creating new problems, rather than solving anything. And we pay these people HOW MUCH?!?! It's all just a game, that both parties are too happy to play.

Originally Posted by nononsenseguy

Your attitude is wrong. You might be 100% correct (but I don't agree that it is that bad), but you cannot effectuate any change unless you get involved. You have more power as an idividual than you think, but sitting out, you have no power at all.

And the difference is???? Sorry but I think the attitude is growing. Maybe that's a GOOD thing, because as more people become aware of the politicians' game, they might start to demand some REAL changes. But I fear the powered elite might be able to dismantle any ideas that conflict with their agenda, as they own not only the power and the money, but the media, and can thus manipulate the masses by filtering the disseminated information, and flavoring anything and anybody that might otherwise stand a fighting chance.

Originally Posted by nononsenseguy

Do you ever fax your representatives? Sign petitions? Do you vote? It is being said that Romney lost (I don't know which Party you favor) because 40M of the Republican base did not vote.

I have, to all three questions, but it doesn't make any difference. Emailing Obama regarding his constant caving to the House merely put me on his spam list. The way I see it, Romney (and the [R's] lost because they were all too happy with what they could get out of Obama. While his words are [D], his accomplishments are 100% [R] (yes, even the flucked-up version of Obamacare, which does nothing to get Insurance and Pharmaceutical profits out of the healthcare industry). The [R's] put on this great show of scorn and ridicule while they all (the [D's] AND [R's]) laugh all the way to the bank.

Originally Posted by nononsenseguy

Your first responsiblility is to become informed on the issues that matter. Then let your voice be heard. Be vocal (but be articulate and polite).

Talking points don't work with me any more. I've seen the cycle too many times.

Originally Posted by nononsenseguy

Three is something wrong with this, however. Surely, you have a core set of beliefs. The Democrat Party is decidedly "Progressive" (Collectivist, socialist, and there are many avowed communists in the Party as well as Marxists). Any vote for a Democrat, and it says this is what you support. You cannot escape it with the excuse that "you vote for the person."

The Republican party, though it too has it's "progressives," stands in stark contrast to the collectivism of the Democrat Party.

A vote for a "third party" candidate is a guarantee that you will wind up with the worst of the other two. This has been proven time and time again.

To claim that you "vote for the person, not the party" is a cop out. And, it accomplishes nothing. We have to work within the system we have to effect change. And, ironically, that is how the system itself gets changed, ultimately; not from some outside force. The "Tea Party" works within the system to promote candidates that it's members believe best represent their views. That's how it's done. This is how we got great people like Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and more.

Sorry, but IMO, these are just more talking points. The Tea Party candidates are all just looking for their turn at bat. As they seem to do nothing but foment hate and division, and "in-your-face" social intrusions, while they claim to want small government. I can't see them ever being able to garner a majority of voters, as they cast everyone who is not exactly like them as an enemy. IMO, THEY are driving influence behind the divisiveness of this country today.

Originally Posted by J746NEW

When he says, work within the system between "Democrats and Republicans" I take it to mean, keep the status quo in place so the same game continues.

The game where the Big Banks and Big Corporations fund both sides to get to the head of the line.
The same game where Our offensive military protects the global interests of the aforementioned rather than the national interests of this nation.

There will be no change for the better until we get the Big Banks and Big Corporations out of our government.
Our government is no longer working for the majority of American's.

+100! ... Very well stated, IMO. Sorry, but I couldn't rep you again just yet.

Originally Posted by BentBow

There are only a handful of congressmen and women, that lobbyist don't waste their time on.

Ron Paul never got a knock on the door from a lobbyist.
His son Rand, the same way.
Ted Cruz is another
Allen West was another

This is an interesting claim. Do you have some documentation that could support it? But more importantly, WOULD they have taken a payout if one was indeed offered? I guess, similar to "you have to pass it to find out what's in it", we will not know until it's too late. Sorry if I don't share your optimism here.

Originally Posted by petch751

Those lobbyist are making an enormous amount of money. That is why Obama wants to keep raising taxes. And the exact reason we want less government. Obama isn't in it for the people, common people use your head, hear what he is saying. With all the money going to the government and he wants more?!

If only the money spent on lobbying and these PAC/SuperPAC pieces of sh1t was paid where it belongs ... in TAXES ... rather than lining pockets of individuals who don't need it, this country MIGHT find itself on a stronger financial foundation. Heck, it would be a start! But sorry, I DON'T think that's the "reason Obama wants to raise taxes".

Originally Posted by kidkaos2

It is difficult to reform campaigns without restricting freedom of speech. People are allowed to say what they want, and money gives you a bigger microphone to say it with. I share the frustration over special interest groups, but don't know of any way to legally deal with the problem.

We already did cap donations. All that happened was people pooled donors together. I can only donate $X so I get 20 other people to donate $X too and now I have twenty times the influence. They're called bundlers.

Then I contribute another $X to a political action committee that isn't officially affiliated with the candidate but campaigns on their behalf. The committee can lie, cheat, and smear and the candidate can just say "Hey I'm not the one who said that"

You can't bribe politicians. But you can tell them if you vote for this certain legislation then my company will make a huge profit, and let them invest in your company then pass the law and get a big return on the investment. Which is effectively a legal bribe.

You can make a big donation to the unversity their kid is trying to get into. You can give their wife a six figure salary for a part time job. You can give their brother a consulting fee. You can buy a new car and then sell it to them "used" the next day, sell them a house and carry the mortgage at 1% interest, take them on a cruise to "meet with their constituents", etc

There's just too many ways for politicians to be influenced. Getting them all would require acting like a dictator and violate civil rights. Plus it would require the politicians to vote against themselves in majority numbers to get the laws passed.

Some good points here, but IMO, our "Freedom Of Speech" has already bitten the bullet. When a monopoly (or a limited number of individuals) own the media, nobody else can make their voices heard. When only a limited few have the $$$, everyone else's voice becomes a mere drop in the ocean.