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Old 05-19-2012, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
16,471 posts, read 15,913,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
It's easy to criticize those parents as awful and use them as an example for unsuccessful adoption, but I know a lot of biological parents that did not and do not accept their deaf children. I go to a deaf school and really the only parents who know sign language are the parents who are themselves deaf (which is about 5-10% of the time, from genetic deafness). The rest of my deaf friends' parents didn't even bother to learn a language so they could communicate with their child on the most basic level. Even one of my friend's parents, who is a gifted polyglot and a professor of linguistics, didn't bother to learn sign language for his own deaf son. So I can see why the same pattern would evolve with an adopted child, and when adoption enters the equation, so does the option of returning the child (at least in their minds). The theme of parents rejecting their disabled children is incredibly heart-breaking, but it's certainly not restricted to adoptive families.
That is absolutely shocking!

Where I used to teach a number of the cognitively disabled special education students used sign language due to being CD & deaf or CD & nonverbal autistic. Many of their regular education classmates in elementary school learned basic sign language to communicate with them. Usually it was only a few common phrases or greetings but this was something totally voluntary. It was heartwarming to watch.

It is terrible for parents not to learn how to communicate with their own child.
Shame on them!
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,105 posts, read 2,736,749 times
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I've been reading a bit about the story about the boy who was sen back to Russia and apparently the orphanage and Russian adoption workers claim that he did not have any severe problems before he was adopted. They also claim that he's doing great now that he's back. Of course it wouldn't be unthinkable that they hid some of his issues in order to get him adopted or maybe the orphanage simply didn't know because of the lack of time the caretakers have for the kids.
I wonder, though, if maybe he actually didn't have the kind of problems and the propensity for violence that he showed after he was adopted. To me it certainly isn't that hard to imagine that a kid who comes from hell to begin with will react strongly when he's shipped to the other side of the planet, dumped with a bunch of strangers who he don't understand and don't understand him, robbed of his name and expected to live in a family like any little American boy. It's not that odd that he started to act out. It must have been extremely confusing and difficult for an 8-year old who isn't secure and stable already. I suspect that a large part of the problem lied with the adoption itself and I think that much more attention have to be paid to how the adoptions are done when it comes to older kids if we want to avoid future problems.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:59 AM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,646,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
It's easy to criticize those parents as awful and use them as an example for unsuccessful adoption, but I know a lot of biological parents that did not and do not accept their deaf children. I go to a deaf school and really the only parents who know sign language are the parents who are themselves deaf (which is about 5-10% of the time, from genetic deafness). The rest of my deaf friends' parents didn't even bother to learn a language so they could communicate with their child on the most basic level. Even one of my friend's parents, who is a gifted polyglot and a professor of linguistics, didn't bother to learn sign language for his own deaf son. So I can see why the same pattern would evolve with an adopted child, and when adoption enters the equation, so does the option of returning the child (at least in their minds). The theme of parents rejecting their disabled children is incredibly heart-breaking, but it's certainly not restricted to adoptive families.
I am Deaf myself and can confirm this is true to my experience. Only a handful of those parents learned sign language... and usually they're very lucky. I knew of one whose entire family (4 generations in all!) when they found out he became Deaf due to an illness... all went to night school just to learn sign language. Those kind of families are extremely rare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
That is absolutely shocking!

Where I used to teach a number of the cognitively disabled special education students used sign language due to being CD & deaf or CD & nonverbal autistic. Many of their regular education classmates in elementary school learned basic sign language to communicate with them. Usually it was only a few common phrases or greetings but this was something totally voluntary. It was heartwarming to watch.

It is terrible for parents not to learn how to communicate with their own child.
Shame on them!
Most of my peers who went to regular elementary schools with Deaf programs only spoke of being shunned, demeaned, shamed, teased and ignored by their hearing peers. The teachers were totally indifferent and put a lame "effort" trying to bridge the two. This is why the Deaf Community on the whole don't really regard the Hearing people highly.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:05 AM
 
11,686 posts, read 13,078,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Today's ruling:

US judge: Woman who sent back Russian boy must pay *| ajc.com

The shock here is that the ruling came from a US judge, which will have major implications for anybody looking to adopt overseas.
Bravo, this woman should pay. She reportedly did nothing to seek help for the boy. She wanted a pefect "pet" it seems, not a human being, and when he turned out to be "flawed," treated him like a sack of garbage.

I hope the courts are able to hunt her down and make her pay something of the judgement.
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:17 AM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,421 posts, read 16,681,935 times
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A freind of mine wouldn't have much sympathy for this woman. At the time she chucked him on the plane, they were in the process of an adoption from Russia. After they were frozen, anyone who'd paid fees had to start over and be reapproved. They ended up adopting a bother and sister from Poland. The children's older siblings were adopted close enough they could continue to see each other.

But one of the children has had nothing but problems. They've had to take all the goodies from his room, he's had his door replaced from pounding on it twice. He was taken from the parents very young and had been in an orphanage for three years. But they'd had to take a class on the problems they could expect and methods of dealing with them, and stuck with it. It's taken time, but he's getting better. They would never ever dump him back where he learned to behave this way.

I honor every adoptive parent who takes the challenge and sticks with the effort without regret. My son wasn't adopted, but had problems he was born with, and sometimes I wondered where that perfect world where kids and parents were like the tv families we remembered had gone. But with kids you take what you get and do the best you can even if they came from you.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,434 posts, read 41,620,437 times
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This thread should be required reading for everybody considering adoption of older kids from Eastern European countries. Many in this country can't even imagine some of the things wirtten here. They must have been living under a rock because it is on the news frequqntly.

But there is something else to consider when adopting. It happens in this country too but remember most of the birth mothers have absolutely no prenatal care. They come from poor provinces where they themselves are usually malnourished and medical care is just not available. And many times these children are not born with medical attention.

For our own adoptions we asked for children who were born in hospitals and not found under a bush in a rice field somewhere. In Asia there are women who make a living by taking unwanted babies, placing them in bushes, by a building, etc and then they sit and wait until the child is found. At least they don't abandon the children. So that is why we asked for physician attended births.

Another thing about children from orphanages in Eastern European countries is that birth mothers usually have alcohol problems. They may drink all thru their pregnancies and the children are born with fetal alcohol syndrome. Very sick children. usually no alcohol or drug problems with asian mothers, just poverty and shame of being unwed.

While love is very important and of course essential, please remember that love does not solve all problems. Sounds great but it just doesn't cure the problems of malnutrition, neglect, abuse etc that many older kids in orphanages have to deal with.

We did a great deal of research before we undertook international adoption. We learned that Asian countries, for the most part, treat their abandoned children very well with proper care and nutrition. In fact orphanages in Vietnam are called Nutrition Centers where any parents can drop off their children without fear of losing them just to make sure they are fed properly.
I saw first hand the orphanages in Vietnam where the kids were busy, happy, schooled, dressed and fed, given music lessons etc. they were not dreary places.
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:47 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,226,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkpoe View Post
I am Deaf myself and can confirm this is true to my experience. Only a handful of those parents learned sign language... and usually they're very lucky. I knew of one whose entire family (4 generations in all!) when they found out he became Deaf due to an illness... all went to night school just to learn sign language. Those kind of families are extremely rare.



Most of my peers who went to regular elementary schools with Deaf programs only spoke of being shunned, demeaned, shamed, teased and ignored by their hearing peers. The teachers were totally indifferent and put a lame "effort" trying to bridge the two. This is why the Deaf Community on the whole don't really regard the Hearing people highly.
I know of one person that picked up ASL for me when I went deaf for 2 years (abuse-related). My family didn't pick up any sign (not even fingerspelling) and I didn't have a conversation with them the whole time I was deaf. My partner at the time didn't bother to learn sign for me either (she was the one that made me deaf). Our main way of communicate was that she would write letters on my back, or I'd hook up my computer with my braille display. Anyone else I communicated with already knew ASL or learned some basic finger spelling, but not enough to have a fluent conversation. And what breaks my heart is that a lot of my Deaf and Deaf Blind friends went through this their whole childhood, and still do today. I could barely take 2 years of being cut off my from family like that, for no other reason than the fact they didn't want to learn sign. I can't imagine what it's like for that to be your whole life. Some of my Deaf friends ask me to interpret so they can talk to their own parents. I can't even begin to tell you how depressing that is to me. It just crushes me.

Anyway, in an attempt to reel us back into the original topic, my point is that parents reject their children, for various reasons, in both adoptive and biological scenarios. It doesn't always have to do with the failed adoption, so much as how the parents would have reacted, even if their child was biological. Something like "they sent the child back cause he was deaf" might not be proof of a failed adoption, but just the fact that a lot of hearing/sighted/able-bodied parents cannot accept their Deaf/Blind/disabled children. For every adoptive parent that sends their child back due to something like deafness, I wonder how many biological parents wish they could get rid of their child like that. A lot of adoptive children do have emotional problems, but often when biological children have deep emotional problems, the end results aren't pretty either. No parent knows exactly how their children are going to turn out, biological or adopted. And many parents do have this preconceived notion of who their child is going to be, and end up being upset and reacting badly when they find out their child is not who they wanted their child to be.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:03 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,226,978 times
Reputation: 12496
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
This thread should be required reading for everybody considering adoption of older kids from Eastern European countries. Many in this country can't even imagine some of the things wirtten here. They must have been living under a rock because it is on the news frequqntly.

But there is something else to consider when adopting. It happens in this country too but remember most of the birth mothers have absolutely no prenatal care. They come from poor provinces where they themselves are usually malnourished and medical care is just not available. And many times these children are not born with medical attention.

For our own adoptions we asked for children who were born in hospitals and not found under a bush in a rice field somewhere. In Asia there are women who make a living by taking unwanted babies, placing them in bushes, by a building, etc and then they sit and wait until the child is found. At least they don't abandon the children. So that is why we asked for physician attended births.

Another thing about children from orphanages in Eastern European countries is that birth mothers usually have alcohol problems. They may drink all thru their pregnancies and the children are born with fetal alcohol syndrome. Very sick children. usually no alcohol or drug problems with asian mothers, just poverty and shame of being unwed.

While love is very important and of course essential, please remember that love does not solve all problems. Sounds great but it just doesn't cure the problems of malnutrition, neglect, abuse etc that many older kids in orphanages have to deal with.


We did a great deal of research before we undertook international adoption. We learned that Asian countries, for the most part, treat their abandoned children very well with proper care and nutrition. In fact orphanages in Vietnam are called Nutrition Centers where any parents can drop off their children without fear of losing them just to make sure they are fed properly.
I saw first hand the orphanages in Vietnam where the kids were busy, happy, schooled, dressed and fed, given music lessons etc. they were not dreary places.
Especially the bolded parts!

Please, please, if you are considering adopting, research! Do lots and lots of research--on attachment, adoptive families, on the orphanage conditions of the country you plan on adopting from, on that culture, on everything. Find other adoptive families. Talk to people who have adopted from the same country, or neighboring countries. Try to develop a relationship with other adoptive parents so that you can ask all those "hard to ask" and "hard to answer" questions. Better that you know what you're getting yourself into so that you don't bite off more than you can chew. Even if you decide not to go through with adoption because of something you found out, that is better than adopting a child and finding yourself in a situation that is more than you can handle. Everyone wants to be able to adopt the 12-year-old severely disabled child who was abandoned under a bridge and then abused in an institution, etc. etc. but if that is more than you can handle, then don't do it. Don't delude yourself by thinking you can handle even the most difficult scenarios because it's not fair to you or the child you plan on adopting. If you have limitations in how much you can handle emotionally, respect those limitations. It will be better for you and the child in the end. You can only hope and pray that the children who need more than you can give will find parents who can give that much. But if you try to give more than you have, you will only end up frustrated, embittered, and worn out.

P.S. I love your status--about how in NC you can marry your cousin, just not your gay cousin! Great way to put it! Lol.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:14 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
It's easy to criticize those parents as awful and use them as an example for unsuccessful adoption, but I know a lot of biological parents that did not and do not accept their deaf children. I go to a deaf school and really the only parents who know sign language are the parents who are themselves deaf (which is about 5-10% of the time, from genetic deafness). The rest of my deaf friends' parents didn't even bother to learn a language so they could communicate with their child on the most basic level. Even one of my friend's parents, who is a gifted polyglot and a professor of linguistics, didn't bother to learn sign language for his own deaf son. So I can see why the same pattern would evolve with an adopted child, and when adoption enters the equation, so does the option of returning the child (at least in their minds). The theme of parents rejecting their disabled children is incredibly heart-breaking, but it's certainly not restricted to adoptive families.
That's true. Biological parents can certainly be less than perfect.

I suppose no parent is 100% perfect all the time in every way. Most try to do their best -- and maybe 100% perfect isn't how it should be because then the child could be too sheltered, too unprepared to face what's out there in the world.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:20 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
This thread should be required reading for everybody considering adoption of older kids from Eastern European countries. Many in this country can't even imagine some of the things wirtten here. They must have been living under a rock because it is on the news frequqntly.

But there is something else to consider when adopting. It happens in this country too but remember most of the birth mothers have absolutely no prenatal care. They come from poor provinces where they themselves are usually malnourished and medical care is just not available. And many times these children are not born with medical attention.

For our own adoptions we asked for children who were born in hospitals and not found under a bush in a rice field somewhere. In Asia there are women who make a living by taking unwanted babies, placing them in bushes, by a building, etc and then they sit and wait until the child is found. At least they don't abandon the children. So that is why we asked for physician attended births.

Another thing about children from orphanages in Eastern European countries is that birth mothers usually have alcohol problems. They may drink all thru their pregnancies and the children are born with fetal alcohol syndrome. Very sick children. usually no alcohol or drug problems with asian mothers, just poverty and shame of being unwed.

While love is very important and of course essential, please remember that love does not solve all problems. Sounds great but it just doesn't cure the problems of malnutrition, neglect, abuse etc that many older kids in orphanages have to deal with.

We did a great deal of research before we undertook international adoption. We learned that Asian countries, for the most part, treat their abandoned children very well with proper care and nutrition. In fact orphanages in Vietnam are called Nutrition Centers where any parents can drop off their children without fear of losing them just to make sure they are fed properly.
I saw first hand the orphanages in Vietnam where the kids were busy, happy, schooled, dressed and fed, given music lessons etc. they were not dreary places.
That is a really good post. Better informed adoptive parents.

I cannot imagine how heart breaking it would be for a child to first be adopted and then be sent back -- it doesn't matter how serious the child's problems are, it's got to be very painful to be rejected that way.

I'm somewhat familiar with a case right now where the family has 8 children who were all adopted as older children and had been abused and neglected. Now the father is deployed, the mother works and is overwhelmed.

The kids aren't doing well in school and also may not be getting the psychiatric help some of them need. They do live in a nice home -- they do have an example of parents in the home, parents who work and provide for them. It can be difficult to find babysitters for kids like these which doesn't help when the mother is too tired to deal with them.
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