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Old 06-25-2012, 07:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
I'd like to see those studies. Almost every teen has anger problems. It comes with the hormones. My grown adopted daughter had/has very little tolerance for teens who blame everything little thing wrong in their lives on the fact they were adopted. She had an adopted friend who blamed all her problems on being adopted and my daughter would say to me "Doesn't she realize how blessed she is? How many more problems she would have if she HADN'T been placed for adoption?"

We taught all our adopted children that being adopted was the best thing to ever happen to them, to see it as a loving act from a family who just could not give them the kind of lives they deserved. I never told them they were "given up for adoption". I told them their birth families made the best plans available for them so they would not suffer from poverty or hunger or neglect. I taught them that they were with us only because of the love and selflessness of some very good people.


More than once my grown daughter has thanked me (us) for giving her the kind of life she knew she was so fortunate to have. She never went through drugs or drinking or evil boyfriends or rebellion. We certainly had some mother/daughter angst but that happens in all families, adopted or not.
Maybe it has a lot to do with what they're told about the adoption. I have quite a few cousins that were adopted as babies, one adopted when he was almost 5 and they all turned out okay except for one. None on drugs, non in jail. They were told that their biological mother wasn't able to give them the kind of home she wanted them to have and their parents very much wanted a child.

The one that has problems had an alcoholic biological mother that drank heavily, he was born with a number of problems and he is a schizophrenic now but he still loves his family.

I wonder how thorough these studies are - if a baby was abused with drugs and alcohol before birth, and the reasons the biological mother gave up the baby are factored in.

 
Old 07-02-2012, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,682 posts, read 83,258,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Maybe it has a lot to do with what they're told about the adoption. I have quite a few cousins that were adopted as babies, one adopted when he was almost 5 and they all turned out okay except for one. None on drugs, non in jail. They were told that their biological mother wasn't able to give them the kind of home she wanted them to have and their parents very much wanted a child.

The one that has problems had an alcoholic biological mother that drank heavily, he was born with a number of problems and he is a schizophrenic now but he still loves his family.

I wonder how thorough these studies are - if a baby was abused with drugs and alcohol before birth, and the reasons the biological mother gave up the baby are factored in.
there are 2 sides to the story but what a child is told can play a huge role. We have 3 grown kids, 2 are adopted. I am going to keep this as short as possible and still try and make a point. First off, all three are kids we can be proud of and all three had trials and tribulations growning up, but our son, who is the baby had the most. Our middle child, our 1st adopted we got when she was 3 days old, we saw her the first time at about 12 hours old. Both of our adopted children knew from the time they were infants they were adopted but she handled it better. Her biological mom was a flight attendent. In our little girls simple mind, she knew a mommy that was on an airplane all the time could not take care of her baby, so she had to give her up. By the time she was really old enough to understand what it all meant she was secure and has always been a wonderful daughter and has always thanked us. She does all the time. At one point she did think about trying to locate her biological mom, we have no problem with her doing so. Our son, who is only 13 months younger and was 9 weeks old when we got him, had always heard how big he was a birth (10 lbs, 15 oz) and how funny looking he was. Never did it occur to us we would damage his ego, we just laughed at the comments. When he was about 5 he asked us if his mommy gave him away cause he was big and ugly.Only then did we realize the seeds we had planted. No matter how hard we tried we couldn't undo the damage we did. Add to this he knew we loved sports and wanted a son that was athletic. He was a super star in every sport there was, even, eventuall signing a pro contract. He always thought someone didn't want him cause he was ugly and we wanted him cause he was an athlete.

He was the one that gave us the most trouble as a child and teen. He hates the word adoption and thinks any woman that would give her baby up is a slumbag. He doesn't even have much respect for women period except his sisters and me. I am not sure he even has respect for his wife...

So yes, what you say to a child, especially an adopted child can make a lot of differnce in their feelings about themselves. I think another issue, today, so many women choose to keep their babies it is even harder for adopted children to understand why they are adopted, why someone did not choose to keep them. When we adopted it was still not the thing to keep a baby if you were not married.

Nita
 
Old 07-17-2012, 10:36 AM
 
74 posts, read 223,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
The article linked to below talk about the issue this thread is, or at least was, about. The following quote gets to the point:
"Although adoptees make up only 2 to 3 percent of the population, statistics consistently indicate that 30 to 40 percent of those children found in special schools, juvenile hall and residential treatment centers are adopted. Adopted children have a higher incidence of juvenile delinquency, sexual promiscuity and running away from home than their non-adopted peers. They also have more difficulty in school, both academically and socially."

You can read the rest of the article here:

Keep Your Baby - Celebrating Natural Families! - Primal Wound

ETA: The article is posted on an anti-adoption website. Despite what some think I'm definitely not anti-adoption. I linked to the site because the article talks about the issue I've talked about in this thread, not because I support the message of the site.
This reply, while I quoted Lizita's above, is not specifically to her, but a general reply:

I am not adopted, nor have I given up a child for adoption. I just wanted to tell you about an experience I once had. I met a family for whom I felt a great affinity, so much so I couldn't explain in words until I finally said, "They're like family." And, they were. They were distant family, but they were my biological family. And what's germane to this discussion is that they are from the side of my family I hardly know. YET, I "knew" them instinctively. Haven't you all read about this type of thing? Two men or women become best friends, and it turns out they are really family, but had been adopted. I read recently of a man who on holiday asked another man if he'd take a photo of his family, and the man he asked was actually his bioliogical brother, also on holiday at the same location. Now, that's biology for you!

This is not to say that no child should ever be put up for adoption, but I think historically we have discounted the importance of biology, which is actually really a HUGE factor in who we are. I've spent a great amount of time, due to my parents' divorce, with other families that aren't mine. They "adopted" those families as their own, but I did not feel that they were mine and felt very ignored or at best a patronized guest. That's the closest I can get to the feeling of being an adoptee. Yes, at each I had one biological parent, but they were so invested in impressing the new families that they ignored me. I could have been anywhere. (I did at times see the family related to the one I mention above, but rarely, and for many years not at all. Also, I did often see my grandparents from the other side of my family, fortunately!) So, I spent a lot of time feeling like the proverbial "red-headed step-child." My mother had the nerve to tell me, "You're the only one who feels that way." Yes, as the only child of my parents' divorce, therefore the ONLY person in that one position I would be the only one to feel that way. So, I do feel empathy for adopted children whose parents are not aware of how important biology is for them and expect them to fit right in just because they've been "signed-up" for a new family, so to speak.

That experience with that previously unkown distant family was one like no other I'd had. I'd never used the word "family" in a positive way before, I'm sorry to say. (There was a comedian, whose name I can't recall, who referred to it as "the F word," and I felt that way.) Yet, ultimately I could not describe those people in any other terms - no other terms would do - than FAMILY. They are my biological family, and instinctively I knew it just like an animal knows their family. To put it another way, they are part of my "tribe."

Women (who aren't on hormonal birth control, which is another problem at the age we choose our mates, but not always) choose their mates based on the fact that they smell vastly different from their biological family. Yet, while they are pregnant they prefer the scent of their own male family members because they are the ones most likely to protect them while pregnant. (How many pregnant women do we see on the news who are killed by their boyfriends or spouses?) We act instinctively. Even the child in the most well-informed and loving home might still feel "something" is missing because it is. Their biological family is missing. Not just the mother and father, but the extended family. It's not a criticism of the adoptive family at all, but it's just nature. And maybe some children have every other variable (and our lives can be viewed as made up of variables in a way) in life go so well and so well addressed that the one variable that is instinctive doesn't override everything else. But, historically, we've looked at child-rearing as being too much about nurture and discounted so much of nature.

Edit to add: We also pick up on microexpressions. I've finally as an adult put my foot down. Don't you think adopted children notice, even if not consciously, that other family members, even if not their adoptive parents, don't treat them the same way they treat the biological siblings and cousin? Microexpressions are just that, expressions that are micro. They are that subtle, but we pick up on them. They are usually quite contrary to what people say. It's why my own mother said to me, "You're the only one who feels that way." (She might have said "think," which would have been more appropriate because while they might all have been "thinking" one thing they were "feeling" another, and it showed.) If your adopted child ever is left out of a family photo with any terms about "real family" or not given a Christmas or birthday gift from even one relative while everyone else of her "class" (i.e. cousin, sibling) is include, then she is reminded that ultimately she's different no matter what you tell her. And what your own parents and siblings might tell you with the biggest smile on their faces might not be what your adoptive child is picking up from them.

[Please don't ask me to find every article to back this up just for the sake of argument. I do have a "valid expert" in my family, so I'm not uniformed. If you'd like for me to seek out something in particular, then do ask, and I will do so. Otherwise, I'm sure if you are interested you'll just do some reading on your own anyway.]

P.S. Ladies, take note of my comment on not using hormonal birth control (i.e. the pill) when you are deciding on your "mate." Read up on it. It's biology. You will pick someone with the genetic makeup most or very unlike your own, which means you are more likely to have a healthy child. I happened to meet my husband while off the pill (and did not yet know that information at the time), but our ancestors are distinctly from different regions, albeit all European.

Last edited by Sunny_Isles; 07-17-2012 at 10:49 AM..
 
Old 07-17-2012, 11:21 AM
 
74 posts, read 223,195 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
there are 2 sides to the story but what a child is told can play a huge role. We have 3 grown kids, 2 are adopted. I am going to keep this as short as possible and still try and make a point. First off, all three are kids we can be proud of and all three had trials and tribulations growning up, but our son, who is the baby had the most. Our middle child, our 1st adopted we got when she was 3 days old, we saw her the first time at about 12 hours old. Both of our adopted children knew from the time they were infants they were adopted but she handled it better. Her biological mom was a flight attendent. In our little girls simple mind, she knew a mommy that was on an airplane all the time could not take care of her baby, so she had to give her up. By the time she was really old enough to understand what it all meant she was secure and has always been a wonderful daughter and has always thanked us. She does all the time. At one point she did think about trying to locate her biological mom, we have no problem with her doing so. Our son, who is only 13 months younger and was 9 weeks old when we got him, had always heard how big he was a birth (10 lbs, 15 oz) and how funny looking he was. Never did it occur to us we would damage his ego, we just laughed at the comments. When he was about 5 he asked us if his mommy gave him away cause he was big and ugly.Only then did we realize the seeds we had planted. No matter how hard we tried we couldn't undo the damage we did. Add to this he knew we loved sports and wanted a son that was athletic. He was a super star in every sport there was, even, eventuall signing a pro contract. He always thought someone didn't want him cause he was ugly and we wanted him cause he was an athlete.

He was the one that gave us the most trouble as a child and teen. He hates the word adoption and thinks any woman that would give her baby up is a slumbag. He doesn't even have much respect for women period except his sisters and me. I am not sure he even has respect for his wife...

So yes, what you say to a child, especially an adopted child can make a lot of differnce in their feelings about themselves. I think another issue, today, so many women choose to keep their babies it is even harder for adopted children to understand why they are adopted, why someone did not choose to keep them. When we adopted it was still not the thing to keep a baby if you were not married.

Nita
Nita, I think it's heartwarming that you realized what your child was feeling and are willing to speak about it. So many people don't want to admit something they said hurt someone even if they weren't even intending to hurt someone's feelings. That's true for anyone, but especially for adopted children and children of divorce/remmariages because many times what's said is unintentionally isolating to them. I hope you will continue to speak about it because people do need to hear it. My husband comes from an intact family and just can't understand the things I tell him because he can't fathom what it's like to live in a home without his own mother and father. It's very frustrating for me.

And you're correct that it just wasn't the thing to do to keep children when you weren't married years ago. Now, we've gone to the other extreme where it's "fashionable" to be a teen mom, but that's a different issue. There is also the conern that with sperm donations that we will have too many children of the same fathers who don't even know who their fathers are who are living in the same areas and might become sexually attracted to their own genetic half-siblings.

It's called Genetic Sexual Attraction. I don't look at these issues from a moral standpoint as some do, but from a scientific view, and I think much of what we've done it getting dangerous. Just as my comment in the post above about using birth control pills at the time we choose mates. Is that why we have so many children with Autism now? Possibly? If we all went off hormones when we chose our mates (and that is what we're doing) would we all choose the same men we'd choose as when we are on homones? Again, I'm speaking about this only from a scientific viewpoint.

I do think ultimately that children should have the right to know who their biological parents are, and I do not mean that they always would want contact with them or that they "derserve" legally contact with them, but at least the legal right to know about them and their heritage and biology. They did not ask to be brought into the world and deserve the chance to know the nature from which they came. I have a friend who just learned her biology from her biological mother, and at least she knows that much. She has no idea about her father. At least with the advance in science we'll have DNA banks that adopted children can look to for answers, which could have even told Nita's adopted son that he'd be good at football. (It's about a genetic test for $149 to determine the genetic propensity for sports for children. If it is too old to load and anyone doesn't have a subscription then I can try to put it into a PDF. Just ask.)
 
Old 07-22-2012, 10:54 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,122,267 times
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Children are adopted in so many ways today. Some at birth, some later on, some adoptions are open, permuting contact with the family of birth. There are tras racial adoptions and international adoptions.
It would be almost impossible to compare the adjustment of a child adopted at 7 from social services, to the adoption of a boy adopted at four who is part of a sibling group from Russia with an infant adopted from Africa at eight months.

When they become teens, all that these kids have in common is adoption.

Sort of like having conception in common.
 
Old 07-23-2012, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,682 posts, read 83,258,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny_Isles View Post
Nita, I think it's heartwarming that you realized what your child was feeling and are willing to speak about it. So many people don't want to admit something they said hurt someone even if they weren't even intending to hurt someone's feelings. That's true for anyone, but especially for adopted children and children of divorce/remmariages because many times what's said is unintentionally isolating to them. I hope you will continue to speak about it because people do need to hear it. My husband comes from an intact family and just can't understand the things I tell him because he can't fathom what it's like to live in a home without his own mother and father. It's very frustrating for me.

And you're correct that it just wasn't the thing to do to keep children when you weren't married years ago. Now, we've gone to the other extreme where it's "fashionable" to be a teen mom, but that's a different issue. There is also the conern that with sperm donations that we will have too many children of the same fathers who don't even know who their fathers are who are living in the same areas and might become sexually attracted to their own genetic half-siblings.

It's called Genetic Sexual Attraction. I don't look at these issues from a moral standpoint as some do, but from a scientific view, and I think much of what we've done it getting dangerous. Just as my comment in the post above about using birth control pills at the time we choose mates. Is that why we have so many children with Autism now? Possibly? If we all went off hormones when we chose our mates (and that is what we're doing) would we all choose the same men we'd choose as when we are on homones? Again, I'm speaking about this only from a scientific viewpoint.

I do think ultimately that children should have the right to know who their biological parents are, and I do not mean that they always would want contact with them or that they "derserve" legally contact with them, but at least the legal right to know about them and their heritage and biology. They did not ask to be brought into the world and deserve the chance to know the nature from which they came. I have a friend who just learned her biology from her biological mother, and at least she knows that much. She has no idea about her father. At least with the advance in science we'll have DNA banks that adopted children can look to for answers, which could have even told Nita's adopted son that he'd be good at football. (It's about a genetic test for $149 to determine the genetic propensity for sports for children. If it is too old to load and anyone doesn't have a subscription then I can try to put it into a PDF. Just ask.)
I don't have any problem with children eventually learning the identity of their biological parents, but at a very young age, it can be very confusing. As adults, everyone should have the option to learn the names and locations of their bio family if they can find the info.

As for teen mommy's, I was shocked when I realized they actually had a program on TV about teen moms. Yes, it showed the trails and tribulations, but the few episodes we watched still dealt teens keeping thier babies. I just wish we would see more about young women deciding to place their children for adoption. It is always a hard choice, and it takes a special woman to decide to place her child for adoption.
 
Old 07-23-2012, 07:00 PM
 
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I don't know any statistics on this...but when I taught SPED, and was a counselor later....I always found it odd that I had a very high percentage of adopted children. I have two theories on this issue.

The first is far fetched...I believe many Mothers carrying a child and giving that child up for adoption are having an unplanned and probably high stress pregnancy. Higher stress than a pregnancy that is planned and anticipated. I believe that there is a high rate of cortisol in the Mother's system, and also...emotional detachment. Possible reactive attachment disorder in utero develops.

My other theory is that some adoptive parents are not the greatest parents...and have issues with parenting a non biological child.

I have always found these kids to be a bit, "lost"...and needing something.

Now...that being said...I have seen great kids come from adoptive families. Amazing. I think it is the positive parenting that creates this....
 
Old 07-25-2012, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,682 posts, read 83,258,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I don't know any statistics on this...but when I taught SPED, and was a counselor later....I always found it odd that I had a very high percentage of adopted children. I have two theories on this issue.

The first is far fetched...I believe many Mothers carrying a child and giving that child up for adoption are having an unplanned and probably high stress pregnancy. Higher stress than a pregnancy that is planned and anticipated. I believe that there is a high rate of cortisol in the Mother's system, and also...emotional detachment. Possible reactive attachment disorder in utero develops.

My other theory is that some adoptive parents are not the greatest parents...and have issues with parenting a non biological child.

I have always found these kids to be a bit, "lost"...and needing something.

Now...that being said...I have seen great kids come from adoptive families. Amazing. I think it is the positive parenting that creates this....
there are many theories and yours are as good as any,but I do not share the feeling about adoptive parents not be as good or having trouble parenting a non biological child. Do you have any idea what adoptive parents go through, especially today in order to even get a child. They are parents who just want to have a child to love and nurture.

I still think it has more to do with children feeling they were not wanted, somewhat, maybe your first coments and the fact that many biological moms do not take good care of themselves while pregnant, including using drugs.

Nita
 
Old 07-28-2012, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
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MY family IS natural. Very "natural". And I'm not related to a single member.

Do not EVER infer that there is anything unnatural about adoption! There is something unnatural about trying to reunite abused kids with mothers who have violent boy friends and with teenagers having babies!
 
Old 07-29-2012, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,572,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
Do not EVER infer that there is anything unnatural about adoption! There is something unnatural about trying to reunite abused kids with mothers who have violent boy friends and with teenagers having babies!
What is unnatural about teenagers having babies?

You'd think if it were unnatural it would stop happening and the age of menarche would now be 20. It may or it may not be a good thing for teenagers to have babies, but that is a separate consideration from whether it is natural.

Adoption is an unnatural event; that by itself doesn't prove it's bad. But to assume that every adopted child is better off with their adoptive parents than with natural parents, and that good natural parents are never railroaded out of their childrens' lives by an unscrupulous system, is to assume a fact not at all in evidence, to put it charitably.
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