U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting > Adoption
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-30-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,683 posts, read 83,244,992 times
Reputation: 41524

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
Not everyone believes in the goal of family reunification as the ideal outcome in every case.

The US Foster Care and adoption systems take this as truth. One needs to be on board with this to even be involved with a US foster care adoption.

I vehemently disagree with the premise that the best outcome in every case for every child is reunion with the parent. In fact, I thi nk that there are curtain things that parents do or permit to happen to kids that should end parenthood then and there!

If a mother permitted a boyfriend to molest her child for me THATS IT! Reunion?

No. Not in my like or world. Something fundamental has been ruined and I can't think of any reason to reunite this woman with this child.

Other countries terminate more quickly.

I do not want to be involved with a system that puts reunification at the top of the list when adopting.

Being very fertile does not make you a good parent.
I agree with you 100%. It takes more that getting pregnant to be a mom or a passing of sperm to make a dad. We have had foster children, a few should never have been able to return to thier parents and many children who are with their parents today should not be.

Of course, we all know, there is a thin line between acceptable and unacceptable parents and to terminate a parent, child relationship is a terrible thing, but there are many times when it should be done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-30-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,683 posts, read 83,244,992 times
Reputation: 41524
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
Time and again we have tried to explain this but apparently you and others are of a certain mindset that international adoption is wrong and that adopting families are anti domestic adoption. I don't think anything we have to say will convince you otherwise but some people in this thread are trying. Please have an open mind.
You have it right, your children are lucky to have you as their mom and what so many do not realize: 1-many foster children are not up for adoption, in fact most are not and 2-this goes for homeless kids. Only those who have adopted or are going through the process can truely understand. It is fine to say, adopt kids only from our country, but that isn't always the best way, as many know.

Nita
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2012, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,748 posts, read 3,322,279 times
Reputation: 6467
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Some people will continue to spout on and on about why people go overseas to adopt. Perhaps, I could share my own experiences with domestic adoption. Maybe this will promote some understanding of the problem. Than, again, those who want to believe a system of mythologies and half-truths will continue to do so. At the very least, it allows me to vent and release some of my frustration at the clueless.

Back in 92' after seven years of marriage, DW and I learned that an infertility problem would keep us from having our own children. We wanted children and we wanted to raise them from infancy. We desired the whole experience. So, we did some checking around and signed up with an agency. The paperwork was enormous. The fees were more so. The social worker at the agency was well-meaning, but essentially told us there were about 12 prospective adoptive parents or more for every infant that was available for adoption. It was no better at any other agency in my state. I verified it by checking around. Finally, after eighteen months, we literally went out and found a woman who was ready to give birth and wanted to place her child for adoption. For some complicated reasons, we still had to go through this agency and ended up paying the same high fees even though we had done most of the work ourselves.

To complete our family, we sought to adopt a second and final time. Our mistake was trying to go through the same agency. Fast forward, six years. They still hadn't been able to place a child with us. We made the mistake of complaining. A social worker tried to dump us after taking thousands of dollars of our money (I'm not kidding). We ended up finding another agency, paid yet more money, but this time finally succeeded in adopting our daughter after seven years of waiting.

I'm glad we stuck it out. However, that experience made me understand completely why Americans go overseas to adopt. In short, the process in this country is too:

1. Uncertain. (I was told after paying exorbitant fees it was a guarantee of nothing)
2. Expensive. (10K first time, 25K second time)
3. Humiliating at times because of some of the people who work in the adoption field and their mentality.
4. Long. (I hope no one thinks that 8 years and 6 months to adopt 2 children is not long)

I agree, the process in this country needs to be reformed and perhaps, by going overseas we don't promote that reform. However, IMO we are all likely to be dead long before this system significantly changes.

Politically, I am a democrat with moderate to liberal tendencies, but I have never been able to understand why our system is so hellbent on extending financial assistance to single mothers the way we do. Some assistance, particularly of a temporary nature, would be appropriate, but give me a break. We give out TANF, food stamps, Medicaid, housing subsidies, WIC, and even create special schools so that unwed mothers "will feel at home". IMO, young unwed mothers "shouldn't feel at home". In most cases, society ought to be encouraging them to place their children for adoption. Instead, it creates a dysfunctional model that encourages people who are unlikely to be good parents to attempt the process anyway. Has anyone ever wondered WHY there are so many older kids in foster care???

Finally, and this is something those who oppose foreign adoption never seem to get: A child is a child is a child that needs a home whether they are from Iowa or India.

Over and out...
Amazingly good post! People who have never had fertility problems have no idea. I', glad you completed your family.

And since when did being an unwed mother become a badge of honor?

I am a moderate liberal Democrat BTW.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2012, 01:29 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,117,825 times
Reputation: 48552
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Some people will continue to spout on and on about why people go overseas to adopt. Perhaps, I could share my own experiences with domestic adoption. Maybe this will promote some understanding of the problem. Than, again, those who want to believe a system of mythologies and half-truths will continue to do so. At the very least, it allows me to vent and release some of my frustration at the clueless.

Back in 92' after seven years of marriage, DW and I learned that an infertility problem would keep us from having our own children. We wanted children and we wanted to raise them from infancy. We desired the whole experience. So, we did some checking around and signed up with an agency. The paperwork was enormous. The fees were more so. The social worker at the agency was well-meaning, but essentially told us there were about 12 prospective adoptive parents or more for every infant that was available for adoption. It was no better at any other agency in my state. I verified it by checking around. Finally, after eighteen months, we literally went out and found a woman who was ready to give birth and wanted to place her child for adoption. For some complicated reasons, we still had to go through this agency and ended up paying the same high fees even though we had done most of the work ourselves.

To complete our family, we sought to adopt a second and final time. Our mistake was trying to go through the same agency. Fast forward, six years. They still hadn't been able to place a child with us. We made the mistake of complaining. A social worker tried to dump us after taking thousands of dollars of our money (I'm not kidding). We ended up finding another agency, paid yet more money, but this time finally succeeded in adopting our daughter after seven years of waiting.

I'm glad we stuck it out. However, that experience made me understand completely why Americans go overseas to adopt. In short, the process in this country is too:

1. Uncertain. (I was told after paying exorbitant fees it was a guarantee of nothing)
2. Expensive. (10K first time, 25K second time)
3. Humiliating at times because of some of the people who work in the adoption field and their mentality.
4. Long. (I hope no one thinks that 8 years and 6 months to adopt 2 children is not long)

I agree, the process in this country needs to be reformed and perhaps, by going overseas we don't promote that reform. However, IMO we are all likely to be dead long before this system significantly changes.

Politically, I am a democrat with moderate to liberal tendencies, but I have never been able to understand why our system is so hellbent on extending financial assistance to single mothers the way we do. Some assistance, particularly of a temporary nature, would be appropriate, but give me a break. We give out TANF, food stamps, Medicaid, housing subsidies, WIC, and even create special schools so that unwed mothers "will feel at home". IMO, young unwed mothers "shouldn't feel at home". In most cases, society ought to be encouraging them to place their children for adoption. Instead, it creates a dysfunctional model that encourages people who are unlikely to be good parents to attempt the process anyway. Has anyone ever wondered WHY there are so many older kids in foster care???

Finally, and this is something those who oppose foreign adoption never seem to get: A child is a child is a child that needs a home whether they are from Iowa or India.

Over and out...
I'm another Democrat who agrees with you. Why are we accommodating and rewarding what is, ostensibly bad behavior?

Why ENCORAGE these children to become parents and keep their babies? It DOES create a dysfunctional model. They should not "feel at home." They should feel as though they were irresponsible and made a mistake. The child is not the mistake - unprotected, and random sex while a minor IS a mistake.

I also wonder if it should be treated as a form of Juvenile Delinquency.

If anyone thinks I am being racist, just have a look at Casey Anthony and her parents who encouraged her to "keep the baby: throwing baby showers for this entitled and irresponsible girl who lied to her parents that she was graduating from High School.

Why not offer a voucher to a community college in exchange for the baby and probation and counseling?

And no I'm not being sexist, but the biological fact is the woman/girl gets pregnant. The boy does not. So one gender does need to be a tad more careful than the other.

We are adopting from Eastern Europe and it's a "sure thing" - the biological woman will not know us and their is a huge ocean and a continent between us.

We also adopted from Korea. Our daughter's only interest is to see a picture of her female biological parent. And it's not a huge desire. She is just glad that she was given up to us.

It would be nice if some governmental assistance was given to mature infertile and Gat couples who want to adopt. Single adults too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2012, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,569,450 times
Reputation: 4135
Yeah, a typical unwed mother is a sociopath like Casey Anthony. Sure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2012, 07:56 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,117,825 times
Reputation: 48552
Typical unplanned pregnancies that are carried to term and parented are a mess.

Planed parenthood - weather by birth or adoption is statistically successful.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2012, 02:35 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,117,825 times
Reputation: 48552
Update on Ukraine - While it is true that this country has lifted upper end age restrictions on adoptions, the following restrictions remain in place.

1. single people may not adopt

2. Only married heterosexual couples may adopt

3. Children offered to foreign people - non Ukrainian citizens will be over the age of five - except in the case of a sibling group involving older children.

It still remains a relatively stable program for people who are open to children who are not infants.

Agency fees are "low" in the world of international adoption 23-35 K . Less if you adopt independently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2012, 03:24 PM
 
10,366 posts, read 8,359,306 times
Reputation: 19114
Children with special needs who are under five may also be adopted from Ukraine, but their special needs must appear on Ukraine's list, which has some significant omissions. HIV would be one of the major ones, which is a shame, as there are many, many beautiful, otherwise completely healthy waiting kids with HIV (now very treatable with just a few pills each day - not to be confused with full-blown AIDS). I hope Ukraine's government soon will update their "special needs" list in order to free more children for international adoption.

At present, the actual in-country time in Ukraine seems to takee from four to six weeks total, or can be divided into two trips or about two weeks each, with around ten days in between. This often works well for families who already have children at home, or who wind up adopting a child or children who are not the ages or genders originally expected. My relatives had to ditch a baby bed and substitute a youth bed for a six-year-old, along with quickly acquiring clothing for a nine-year-old, as they had initially thought they'd be adopting much younger children.

Both parents have to travel on the first trip to Ukraine, but one parent can stay for the ten days' wait after the adoption court, or both can go home after court and only one parent return after the ten days. Custody of the child usually occurs after the ten-day wait, but as lots of running around obtaining various documents is still necessary at this point, some parents of young children or kids with special needs choose to leave their children in the orphanage (if it's adequate and the orphanage director agrees) until the red tape and all the waiting around and travel is completed, to ease things for the children. After that, a few days must be spent in Kiev, to complete the adoption and take care of paperwork at the U.S. Embassy. Children adopted abroad become US citizens as soon as the returning plane touches down on US soil.

Ukraine is a beautiful, historic country, and most families enjoy getting to experience some of their children's native land.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2012, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,748 posts, read 3,322,279 times
Reputation: 6467
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
Children with special needs who are under five may also be adopted from Ukraine, but their special needs must appear on Ukraine's list, which has some significant omissions. HIV would be one of the major ones, which is a shame, as there are many, many beautiful, otherwise completely healthy waiting kids with HIV (now very treatable with just a few pills each day - not to be confused with full-blown AIDS). I hope Ukraine's government soon will update their "special needs" list in order to free more children for international adoption.

At present, the actual in-country time in Ukraine seems to takee from four to six weeks total, or can be divided into two trips or about two weeks each, with around ten days in between. This often works well for families who already have children at home, or who wind up adopting a child or children who are not the ages or genders originally expected. My relatives had to ditch a baby bed and substitute a youth bed for a six-year-old, along with quickly acquiring clothing for a nine-year-old, as they had initially thought they'd be adopting much younger children.

Both parents have to travel on the first trip to Ukraine, but one parent can stay for the ten days' wait after the adoption court, or both can go home after court and only one parent return after the ten days. Custody of the child usually occurs after the ten-day wait, but as lots of running around obtaining various documents is still necessary at this point, some parents of young children or kids with special needs choose to leave their children in the orphanage (if it's adequate and the orphanage director agrees) until the red tape and all the waiting around and travel is completed, to ease things for the children. After that, a few days must be spent in Kiev, to complete the adoption and take care of paperwork at the U.S. Embassy. Children adopted abroad become US citizens as soon as the returning plane touches down on US soil.

Ukraine is a beautiful, historic country, and most families enjoy getting to experience some of their children's native land.

Ukraine is a beautiful and historic country filled with very warm and friendly people. I have been there several times and hope to return soon.

Thanks Craig for the very accurate portrayal of Adoption in Ukraine.

And thanks to Seena12 for the update.

Personally, I'd rather deal with Ukraine than US Foster Care, at least as it exists today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-12-2012, 09:50 PM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,593,664 times
Reputation: 12532
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I still don't understand adopting kids from other countries, when we have plenty of homeless kids here, who need parents.
There are plenty of kids all over the world who need parents. Who said adoption is like the Olympics where everything is divided up by country?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting > Adoption
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:30 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top