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Sheena, when you adopt do you plan on having the kids have names from their original culture or language? Just curious. The names we picked out are saints who are from the country the kids are from.
As an adult adoptee who was adopted domestically in the United States as an infant, I was denied all knowledge of my origins, including my original name. My adoptive parents showed absolutely no interest or sensitivity toward what I lost in regards to my sense of self and my identity. I was expected to fit the mold of what they wanted and that was that. Seems that this approach to adoptive parenting is fairly common with some adoptive parents as evidenced by Sheena's comment earlier in this thread:
"Honestly, I want NO attachment to the family of origin. None. I want to adopt children who are ready to move on. In other words I do not want to visit siblings, former moms. dads, grandparents. None of it. I want a closed adoption, which is what I have now."
Sheena, your statement here focuses only on you, the adoptive parent. What about the adoptee? The adoptee might want--and need--to feel connected and attached in some way to their origins. It interests me greatly that people who "do not want to visit siblings, former moms, dads, grandparents" would even bother to adopt in the first place. If you don't want to deal with a child's original parents or families (the source of our ancestry, heritage, physical traits, natural talents/skills/interests), why would you choose to raise a child born to other people? Adoptees don't have "former moms and dads"--we have original parents and adoptive parents. That's the reality of adoption. That's the truth. And we certainly don't move on as though our first families never existed--even if some of our adoptive parents would like to pretend that they don't--because that would mean denying our ancestry, heritage, physical traits and natural talents/skills/interests. And it is my feeling that we should not be expected to downplay our origins because our adoptive parents might have issues with the truth.
All that said, my adoptive parents were/are exactly like you. These are the sorts of things they said directly to me. It's a shame really. Because in denying what is important to me and the inherent parts of my identity, they have created a situation in which, at the age of 41, I do not feel close to them in any way. After finding my original parents, I legally changed my name to include my paternal surname. And I am currently thinking of doing another legal name change in order to incorporate the first name that my original mother gave to me. My paternal surname in particular is my birthright as it is my connection to my ancestry and heritage--none of which comes from my adoptive family.
My adoptive parents do not know about the name change. I do not confide in them about such things because they feel as you do, Sheena. And I go by my married surname anyway. Telling them would result in more statements such as the ones you made here. They would make it all about them instead of stepping back and considering my needs. Fortunately, as a 41-year-old woman, I am perfectly capable of making decisions for myself regarding what I need to feel whole and secure in my identity. The people in my life who support me unconditionally are the ones who I confide in. My adoptive parents are not part of that group. But hey, they got that closed adoption they wanted with no interaction with my original family. Perhaps things will play out differently for you.
Oh, and I'm not a troll. I posted to the Detroit boards back in February regarding a job transfer my husband was offered. I also just happen to be one of those adult adoptees who feels that adoption should be focused on what is best for the adoptee instead of what the adoptive parents want. Knowing our original names and our roots is what is best for us. Speaking as an actual adopted person with 41 years of experience, I would recommend that adoptive parents do everything they can to assist the child they intend to raise with maintaining some part of their original name. Or at the very least, make any and all information about the adoptee's original name available so that he or she can incorporate it in whatever way feels right for them.
It seems as thugh you and your parents don't see eye to eye about this. My adopted child feels the same way that my wife and I feel. She doesn't want her name birth name. It was only her name for four moths and it sounds unusual to her.
It was given to her by a state worker in in another country. She loves us and the name we gave her. If she is happy with it, why is this a problem for you?
Also, and I know this is thouchy, your parents who you call your adoptive parents also had dreams. They dreamed of having children of their own. You are their own child to them. Naming a child is ther first thing most parents ever get to do.
If you are not close with your adoptive parents, I can understand that their choices might not matter to you. Some people are not close to their parents - adopted or not.
If you are close to them, you might want to think that this might hurt them. It's just a thought and if they are not good to you or their are others problems it's your business.
Our children adopted or not just call us parents. Not adoptive parents. They don't erefer to the people who gave birth to them but they have no interest in them.
Sheena, when you adopt do you plan on having the kids have names from their original culture or language? Just curious. The names we picked out are saints who are from the country the kids are from.
I a am not sure if I am adopting the sibling set of three that I first spoke about a moth ago. Another family might be adopting them.
We are most likely going to host them first. A lot will depend on the situation. I know they will be from Ukraine, and chances are, they will be in care because their birth parents were deprived of parental rights because of abuse, neglect or both. We will be adopting at least two, a boy and a girl.
If you don't mind my asking, what country did you abopt from? Why did you chose the names of Saints for your children?
It's an interesting choice.It wouldn't be mine though because Saints are not big in my religion.
The names we chose may or may not be from their culture. Whether or not we use any part or form of the name will depend on how well the name fits into their new culture. Certain names just don't work well.
I have said before if their names are Igor and Nastya ( lends itself to being called Nasty -not a good connotation) or Olga a name that songs pretty unattractive to American ears then, no.
Russian people have no middle name they have instead a Patronymic. This is a name that is created by the father's first name say Boris and boys the addition of "ovitch" meaning son of ot "ovna" daughter of.
So Anna daughter of Boris is" Anna Borisovna".
We would not be keeping the Patronymic for the reason that it is a legal name that links them to a former parent. A parent who was deprived of parental rights. I think that most older adoptees we have met want a new first name. All of the ones we know adopted from Eastern Europe do.A fresh start. They want to fit in.
Names do have a psychological impact on kids, and we are sensitive to that.. Of course they will be asked their opinion. If they do not want our opinion, it might signal that they don't want to be adopted at all. Or that they are very set in thir ways or are longing for a relative to step forward to take them in.Some older Eastern European kids don't want to be adopted.We don't want to force them to be adopted.
While they are here, we will take them to a psychologist from their country who will be able to clarify these issues. I know of two such psychologists, and many families who used each. All of the children are doing well and all but one have different names to different degrees,than they arrived with.
Any one who knows me at all would know I'll not be sitting a child down in a chair and screaming "Your name will be Laura and you'd better learn to like it with all we have dome for you, young lady!"
However, I am learning something from all of this. I can not stress how different domestic adoptions, and domestic adoptees seem to be from IA kids.
If my daughter was 21 or something and suddenly wanted to be called the name Tae Hee I'd be more than surprised.
I am seeing a huge split between international adoptees - which is all I know, and Domestic adoptees. Does anyone else see that?
I know as many domestic adoptees who have reclaimed their original names as I know international adoptees who have, too. Likewise I know as many domestic adoptees who prefer their adopted names. I personally do not feel a connection to either name... it is hard to feel connected to a name that went un-used for so many years. I think that is why some adoptees will ask prospective adoptive parents to consider keeping that part of the adoptee alive & respected, so they do not lose a part of who they were prior to the adoption (often the only thing they may know about themselves prior to adoption).
Of course not all adoptees will feel this way about names, but it is always a risk you take when you change an adoptee's name (without their explicit request) that at some point they might feel their parents wanted to erase or change who they were, wanted them to be someone else. All adoptees should be loved unconditionally for who they are, not for what they are expected to become -- sometimes a name change can invoke that insecurity. I mean if the desire to re-name a child takes priority over that child feeling accepted as they came to you, then that insecurity is very real.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 09-16-2012 at 05:55 AM..
It seems as thugh you and your parents don't see eye to eye about this. My adopted child feels the same way that my wife and I feel. She doesn't want her name birth name. It was only her name for four moths and it sounds unusual to her.
It was given to her by a state worker in in another country. She loves us and the name we gave her. If she is happy with it, why is this a problem for you?
Also, and I know this is thouchy, your parents who you call your adoptive parents also had dreams. They dreamed of having children of their own. You are their own child to them. Naming a child is ther first thing most parents ever get to do.
If you are not close with your adoptive parents, I can understand that their choices might not matter to you. Some people are not close to their parents - adopted or not.
If you are close to them, you might want to think that this might hurt them. It's just a thought and if they are not good to you or their are others problems it's your business.
Our children adopted or not just call us parents. Not adoptive parents. They don't erefer to the people who gave birth to them but they have no interest in them.
I think each situation is different.
So, just a question here. What happens when the child you refer to as your adopted child (apparently, it is okay for you to do this but not me) grows up, changes her mind and no longer agrees with you? What if she does decide that her original name and her original parents are important to her? What if she decides to legally change her name to incorporate her original name? It would be my hope that as her parents, you will find a way to move past your defensiveness and open your heart to whatever it is she needs to feel whole and complete in her sense of identity.
I'm a parent too, Warren. And we seem to have a differing of opinion on some very basic aspects of parenting. It is my feeling that children are not responsible for fulfilling the dreams of adults. In fact, it is my feeling that parenting works in the opposite way. It is a parent's job to help the child reach for their dreams while supporting whatever it is that the child needs to do so. This means that the parent must, on occasion, put aside their own wants and desires to be fully present for the child. Some adopted children (again, I speak with 41 years of experience as an actual adoptee behind me) might need to connect with their ancestry and heritage. Or their original names. Or their country of origin. Or their original parents. These fundamental needs might trump the dream you have of the child not caring at all about these aspects of their identity.
Again, much like Sheena (your wife?), your entire comment focuses on you and what you think. And your comments are extremely finite. You will not be able to speak for your daughter forever. She will eventually grow and mature, reaching a point where she can think for herself. You may have been able to realize YOUR dream of naming a child. But someday, HER dreams will come into play. And will you be prepared to support her if she decides to claim her original name?
I'm going to bow out of this conversation now. Wishing you luck on your journey as an adoptive parent.
I read your post and I don't think that you are a troll. That might be how you interpreted what I wrote, but it is not what I intended to say. I want all of my family, my children to feel equal and a parkt of my family.
I also think that names are impotant. My daughter, adopted from Korea a different cuture and language was not given a name by her birth mother. The name Tae Hee Woo, was bestowed upon her by her foster mother, a paid care giver. If she wanted to be called Tae Hee, It would be up to her when she torns eighteen to change her name. She does not want to change her name! She loves her names, first last and middle and wants to have the same names as her family. HER FAMILY WOULD BE US- he mom, dad, brother and brothers and sisters to be.
All through this I feel disbelieved. As though I have to prove to someone that my daughter is being held captive to a bunch of "Smiths" when deep down inside she is a "Jones"
She is not and that's not the case. She has no interest is Korea. I am part German. I have been to Germany, but I don't have a burning desire to visit the country although I think some day I might.
If my daughter was 21 or something and suddenly wanted to be called the name Tae Hee I'd be more than surprised.
I am seeing a huge split between international adoptees - which is all I know, and Domestic adoptees. Does anyone else see that?
How old is your daughter from Korea? If she is under 18, she probably knows she has no choice in the matter of changing her name. There is also a desire to please your parents and I am sure she knows it would displease you if she said she did want to change her name. I was adopted from Korea, and now at 41, I do have a desire to change my name back to my Korean name. The sad part is, I don't even know what it is. If you talk to ADULTS who were internationally adopted, I think you will see a different answer. If she has no interest in Korea, that means you have not fostered or allowed that interest or she is too scared to tell you. Trust me, she is reminded EVERY DAY that she is not Mary Smith. One day, it will hit her like a ton of bricks. I hope you have her in therapy now. I wish my parents had done that for me.
I have said before if their names are Igor and Nastya ( lends itself to being called Nasty -not a good connotation) or Olga a name that songs pretty unattractive to American ears then, no.
Some food for thought: Nastya is a nickname for Anastasiya. Another nickname for Anastasiya is Stasya, and yet another is Asya. Those are some options you have if you want to keep a connection to the name Nastya without using that specific name. As for Olga, the common nickname is Olya, which I personally think sounds a lot of softer than Olga. As a general rule of thumb, Russian nicknames tend to sound softer so if you ever want to keep the same name while finding a more American-friendly variant, that's always an option. Or if you'd like to go more American, you can Americanize Anastasiya to Anastasia, and then shorten it to Stacy. I know personally that I like that my name has some Russian flavor to it and reflects my ancestry, which IMO is a part of being American, and I like that America is unique in having such diverse ancestries within its population. In a way, having a "cultured" name makes me feel more American rather than less. Even names that sound "run-of-the-mill" often have origins from elsewhere, like John (Hebrew through Greek and Latin) and Mary (also Hebrew through Greek and Latin) if you trace them back far enough.
How old is your daughter from Korea? If she is under 18, she probably knows she has no choice in the matter of changing her name. There is also a desire to please your parents and I am sure she knows it would displease you if she said she did want to change her name. I was adopted from Korea, and now at 41, I do have a desire to change my name back to my Korean name. The sad part is, I don't even know what it is. If you talk to ADULTS who were internationally adopted, I think you will see a different answer. If she has no interest in Korea, that means you have not fostered or allowed that interest or she is too scared to tell you. Trust me, she is reminded EVERY DAY that she is not Mary Smith. One day, it will hit her like a ton of bricks. I hope you have her in therapy now. I wish my parents had done that for me.
I think you might be projecting your own feelings onto other people just a touch here. Do you really know if Sheena exposed her daughter to Korean culture or not, or are you just assuming she didn't? Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else, can really know for sure how every Korean, or internationally-adopted adoptee feels about their name, and why. Everyone is different.
In regard to "Nastya" and "Olga", be aware that those are common nicknames for "Anastasya/Anastasia" and "Olasya/Olacia", and that retaining the full, formal name but changing the nickname to a name more commonly encountered in the western world, such as "Stacy" or "Lacy" may be acceptable to all concerned. Similarly, "Snezhana" might be kept as a formal name but "Zhana", "Ana", or "Hana", might work for everyday, to avoid mean nicknames such "Sneezy Anna" or "Snezzy".
"Igor" and "Boris" are more problematical, and may work better as middle names - "Igor" has such strong negative associations, thanks to cartoonish characters, and easily turns into "Gory" or "Iggy", "Eeky", or "Icky"", while "Boris" has similar issues, as it's not unlikely that young Boris would be termed "Boring", "Boorish", etc. by his peers once the middle school years arrive. So retaining these names as middle names might help avoid lots of ugly teasing. I'm not aware of common, innocuous nicknames for "Igor" or "Boris", in any language - anyone else know??
However, if Nastya, Olga (usually pro. "Olya" in much of Eastern Europe), Snezhana, Igor and Boris are strongly attached to the names or the nicknames they were customarily called in their native land, so be it. The names are unquestionably theirs, no matter who originally gave them, and so should be retained if that is the children's wish, although I think this particular quintet would be well-served by having their (presumably American) adoptive parents explaining to them the likelihood of teasing, and the option of changing their nicknames but retaining their formal names, or alternatively, changing to a more commonly encountered American name which relates to the original name in some way: Anastasia formally becomes Anna or Anne, Olga becomes Olivia or Ophelia, Snezhana becomes Susannah/ Zhanna/Jeanne (with the French pronunciation), Boris becomes Robert/Morris/Norris and Igor can - well, there are fewer male "I" names which are commonly encountered, but Irving, or Irwin/Erwin, while not trendy, might work, or Evan is closer in sound, as is Ivor (uncommon, but more "stately" associations, a very "adult"-seeming name) or the Scottish Ian or Ewan/Euen.
But the child should have the final, informed say, with perhaps some discrete parental checking in and if needed, suggestions and support as the years go by. As noted before, young girls of all backgrounds love to play around with variations of their names during early adolescence - it's part of figuring out who they are and claiming some autonomy. It's rare for name changes made during this developmental state to stick around into adulthood, but there are exceptions.
This thread is moving fast, so Nim and I posted very similar messages re. Russian names. I didn't see her message prior to posting mine above, or would not have repeated her!
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