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I think you might be projecting your own feelings onto other people just a touch here. Do you really know if Sheena exposed her daughter to Korean culture or not, or are you just assuming she didn't? Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else, can really know for sure how every Korean, or internationally-adopted adoptee feels about their name, and why. Everyone is different.
No one can know for sure how every Korean adoptee will feel, but it is better to be safe than sorry in most circumstances, is it not? So one would think it would be best to prepare yourself (best you can -- no one is perfect) for the many different ways adoptees can feel. That includes preparing for the possibility that they will change their mind later in life & regret that they could not have had more of these connections while growing up. It also includes the possibility that adopted children can suppress certain feelings out of fear, or in some cases unresolved grief/ambivalence.
Not to say parents should force anything on their children, but it can be really concerning if one of the adoptive parent's main goals is to westernize their child as much as possible & neglect to consider how important their original name, culture, family might mean to them & their identity. To hope that those things will mean nothing to them is wrong, to not prepare for those things to mean something to them someday is not something I would encourage.
Being open-minded about those things does not hurt anyone, while failing to be prepared can.
Sheena, I don't know if you have exposed your daughter to Korean culture, but I do know you have expressed you only want children who are over their "former selves" so to speak & "ready to move on."
No child has the ability to consent, their brain is not capable of processing future consequences -- so expecting a child to answer a question like that & then expecting them to stick to it is not only unreasonable but a little disturbing. Expecting a teen or adult to stick to it is, too.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 09-17-2012 at 07:20 AM..
I don't think it's ever right with an older child unless it's something the child wants, especially when it comes to international adoptions where there is so many changes to the child's life and identity anyway. I saw a documentary on PBS a couple of years ago that I found rather disturbing. It was about a family that was going to China to adopt an 8-year old girl. The mother went to China to pick her up and they first met at the airport. Just minutes after they met the mother asked the translator to ask the girl what she thought of the name Faith because that was going to be her new name. The translator also told the girl to hug the adoptive mother and tell her "I love you mommy". I thought the whole thing was disgusting. They weren't adopting a dog. They were adopting an individual who already had a name and an identity. This is not a toy for you to do what you want with. It's a little person who deserves consideration and respect for her person. There are so many changes moving in with a new family with new routines and habits and in the case of international adoptions new language, new food, new environment, new everything. At the very least they should be allowed to have their name remain the same.
My dad's wife is from China and her name is hard for westerners to pronounce so she goes by a nickname that it derived from her name. If the trouble is pronouncing the adopted child's name they can do something similar - use a nickname.
BTW, did anyone here see the documentary I mentioned above? If so, what did you think about it? Did others find it as upsetting as I did? (It was called Wo Ai Ni (I love you) Mommy.)
Yes, I saw it. I saw how the girl felt sad as she had to say goodbye to her caregiver. She was given a photo to remember. At her new home, the girl curled up and wouldn't talk. She lashed out in anger.
Later, she is seen talking in Ameican English and parating that she is aadopted. She is too young to process the depth of her loss.
Someone remarks "how well she has adjusted". No, she adapted in order to survive. This is called Stokholm Syndrome.
I'm sure angry and bitter adoptive parents will respond here in attacks upon me. That is why I said in ohter threads that you must educate yourselves, even before taking this adoption journy to fulfil your dream of having a family. You are, in effect, psychologically abusiing the child you bring here from another country. You call it "adjusting" they feel it as something else.
Below are but a few linnks I found. When I find more, I'll post them.
And yes, all of this does point to the very "simple" question of changing an older child's name. That name has been with the child since birth. You are changing the child's identity - internal - identity when you do this. But there is so muc more that happens to a young child from a foreign land adopted into America:
That situation is SOOOO hypothetical I can't deal with it.
Something like that hardly ever happens. As a parent I still want to name my children. Mary could be a middle name.
I'm pretty serious about this and it's doubtful that this situation will be mine - or anyone's.
It is a gift to one's child to bestow a name given by her parents. It is a part of parenting. If there was extreme attachment to the family of origin on any level - not just names - I'd RUN! I do not want to co-parent a child.
I think of The Christmas Card Issue a lot. I think my family has as much right to sound like a family as any other and that my children, adopted or not should be named by their parents - not former parents.
I think I pointed this out in another thread, but this attitude of yours is very detrimental. It shows how verr possessive, self-centered, and in the "mine! She all mine!" mindset.
If you were in a divorced situation and each spouse married new partners and had another set of siblings, these children would be half siblings to the other siblings from the first marriage. And given that father now has children with a different mother, and that mother now has children from a different father, you can add in there the possibility that these new spouses have children from previous marriages as well. All of these children will then have multiple connections. I've seen this happen in many families and it works. The kids are loved by many parents. And the parents are friendly with each other.
You are very insensive, Sheena. No matter how you try to sugar-coat the fact that you are trying your very best, your sickening attitude is disgusting. You - or any adoptive parent - cannot enter into adoption with this closed mindset. You do yourself and your adopt a great injustice.
Adoption is not about YOU. It is about your adoptee. The quicker you adjust to the nature of adoption, the quicker you will become a better parent. Please refer to the long book list I posted in the other thread about Bias against adoptees. There are books written on the psychology of adoption. You need to read them.
Your post read as pretty accusatory. Maybe that's not how you meant it but it seemed to come across that way. It definitely didn't sound friendly, IMO.
I don't think it was accusatory, but maybe my anger/passion about the situation shows through? Can you imagine for a moment being taken from the US to Korea as a child, taken from the only caregivers you know, to stay with strangers surrounded by a language you never heard before (even babies are aware of strangers and audible differences). As you grow, they tell you your name is Kyung, but every time you look in the mirror, you see Sheena Smith. Do you think that you will go your ENTIRE life not wondering about your past, your name, your family and your heritage?
Honestly, I want NO attachment to the family of origin. None. I want to adopt children who are ready to move on. In other words I do not want to visit siblings, former moms. dads, grandparents. None of it. I want a closed adoption, which is what I have now.
How would I know? There are visits before the adoption becomes permanent. Often o0n the photo listing it will say - Stephen desires to visit his birth brother and grandmother - prospective parents should be open to this. We are not open to it.
I think that all of this catering to people who have screwed up is KEEPING KIDS FROM BEING ADOPTED!
It's not fashionable to say this but I am not interested in this AT ALL! Nor is my husband. If a child has delusions of being reunited from a parent from whom she was severed legally, that child does not need me.
They need therapy and I think the whole US social service system needs a reality check. THIS is why people such as myself go abroad.
We do not want to share our children or permit potentially unsafe people into our lives.
Look I do not mean to sound cold, but why is it always the adoptive parent who needs to be open to this or that accommodation? We mostly turned to adoption because we could not have a child a second or a third child.
We did not do it as a charity thing.
We are regular families who want to be a certain size and there are children out there who need adoptive parents.
To create a fantasy world for a prospective child, or to accommodate a teenager who has given birth out of wedlock is wrong and counter productive.
Sheena, I suspect you need therapy to unravel why you cannot accept that a child you adopt has definate ties to the family left behind. You cannot deny it. And your adoptee cannot deny it. These are facts of life and must be dealt with, hopefully together as a growing family.
Having an outlook such as you do is very unhealthy for you, your child, and for the future.
You are the on ewho needs a reality check. You do not run the show. have compassion and understanding for the personal history of the child you adopt, and for the parents of that child who are no longer in that child's life.
You say you do not want any visiting siblings?
Do you realize that if you were mandated to bring your adopted child to visit other siblings who lived with another, say, foster family, or another adoptive family, you would be breaking the law if you refused? Just because you FEEL that you don't want these situraions does not mean that your feelings reflect the healthiest mindset and parenting skills. Those feelings of negativity toward the family of origin will affect of self image of your adoptee.
I suggest you get a grip on reality. Research the next American Adoption Congress Conference in the Spring of 2013 and meet with other adoptees and natural parents and adoptive parents and psycholgists and social workers and lawyers. And people from around the world. You really need to broaden your mind and open your mind.
Last edited by JustJulia; 09-17-2012 at 11:44 AM..
Reason: deleted rude comment
But I have known families who adopted Asian kids who gave them more "American" names along with their Asian names. Considering this is common practice for many Asian American families, and not just adopted families, I don't see anything wrong with it.
I agree what with Asian children you almost have to change all names. My daughter was Tae Hee. Living in America would be odd with a name such as Tae Hee. It's not part of her legal name, and she's glad of that, but she knows it as her Korean name.
You make a good point about Asian families. There is one in my Church with American names. The parents are named another Korean name, the kid's only have American (i.e. names in current usage) names.
I agree what with Asian children you almost have to change all names.
That is really quite racist
Quote:
My daughter was Tae Hee. Living in America would be odd with a name such as Tae Hee. It's not part of her legal name, and she's glad of that, but she knows it as her Korean name.
You make a good point about Asian families. There is one in my Church with American names. The parents are named another Korean name, the kid's only have American (i.e. names in current usage) names.
There is a big difference in families that have moved to America, who then choose to change their names, & adopting a child from another country & changing their name without that child's request. Did your daughter feel her original name was odd when you first adopted her? She probably found her American name odd sounding, too. If a child never expresses the desire for a name change, but it becomes a problem later, you could help them choose a nickname they prefer at that time.
If names are so important to adoptive parents, they should respect how important they can be for adoptees.
As an adult adoptee who was adopted domestically in the United States as an infant, I was denied all knowledge of my origins, including my original name. My adoptive parents showed absolutely no interest or sensitivity toward what I lost in regards to my sense of self and my identity. I was expected to fit the mold of what they wanted and that was that. Seems that this approach to adoptive parenting is fairly common with some adoptive parents as evidenced by Sheena's comment earlier in this thread:
"Honestly, I want NO attachment to the family of origin. None. I want to adopt children who are ready to move on. In other words I do not want to visit siblings, former moms. dads, grandparents. None of it. I want a closed adoption, which is what I have now."
Sheena, your statement here focuses only on you, the adoptive parent. What about the adoptee? The adoptee might want--and need--to feel connected and attached in some way to their origins. It interests me greatly that people who "do not want to visit siblings, former moms, dads, grandparents" would even bother to adopt in the first place. If you don't want to deal with a child's original parents or families (the source of our ancestry, heritage, physical traits, natural talents/skills/interests), why would you choose to raise a child born to other people? Adoptees don't have "former moms and dads"--we have original parents and adoptive parents. That's the reality of adoption. That's the truth. And we certainly don't move on as though our first families never existed--even if some of our adoptive parents would like to pretend that they don't--because that would mean denying our ancestry, heritage, physical traits and natural talents/skills/interests. And it is my feeling that we should not be expected to downplay our origins because our adoptive parents might have issues with the truth.
All that said, my adoptive parents were/are exactly like you. These are the sorts of things they said directly to me. It's a shame really. Because in denying what is important to me and the inherent parts of my identity, they have created a situation in which, at the age of 41, I do not feel close to them in any way. After finding my original parents, I legally changed my name to include my paternal surname. And I am currently thinking of doing another legal name change in order to incorporate the first name that my original mother gave to me. My paternal surname in particular is my birthright as it is my connection to my ancestry and heritage--none of which comes from my adoptive family.
My adoptive parents do not know about the name change. I do not confide in them about such things because they feel as you do, Sheena. And I go by my married surname anyway. Telling them would result in more statements such as the ones you made here. They would make it all about them instead of stepping back and considering my needs. Fortunately, as a 41-year-old woman, I am perfectly capable of making decisions for myself regarding what I need to feel whole and secure in my identity. The people in my life who support me unconditionally are the ones who I confide in. My adoptive parents are not part of that group. But hey, they got that closed adoption they wanted with no interaction with my original family. Perhaps things will play out differently for you.
Oh, and I'm not a troll. I posted to the Detroit boards back in February regarding a job transfer my husband was offered. I also just happen to be one of those adult adoptees who feels that adoption should be focused on what is best for the adoptee instead of what the adoptive parents want. Knowing our original names and our roots is what is best for us. Speaking as an actual adopted person with 41 years of experience, I would recommend that adoptive parents do everything they can to assist the child they intend to raise with maintaining some part of their original name. Or at the very least, make any and all information about the adoptee's original name available so that he or she can incorporate it in whatever way feels right for them.
I agree with your assessment as stated.
This explains my adoption completely. The only differences are that I am oler at age 56, and that I did not legally change my name back to my name at birth. The reason I did not was because I was already psychologically my adopted name as it had been mine for 17 of my 18 years before I was reunited at age 18 and then my adoptive mother threw my birth certificiates at me. I have used my name at birth and baptism as a co-name with my adoptive name when I write articles for publication in newspapers and journals.
But I was named at birth, a birth certificate was issued. I was baptised in that name. And after my mother's death, my father gave me to my adopting parents. My legal and religious name was still my birth name, but they began to call me by my name that would later become my adoptive name. As I was an infant, I first heard my name at birth, then, my new name. An infant adapted. I was legally adopted one year and one week after my birth, and my birth name was officially changed on my new birth certificate three months after my finalization of my adoption. Three years later, my adoptive parents asked the Catholic Church to issue a new baptismal certificate under my new adoptive name and lisitng them as my parents and the date of baptism remained the same and so did my godparents, but the issue date of this doc was three years after the real baptism.
So many lies to keep the facade of adoption.
Yes, I was 18 years old when I saw my true and real birth certificate and baptismal certificate. I was hurt, angry and shocked that my adoptive parents did this to me. I was named at birth by my parents. I was baptised in the eyes of God under that name. My adoptive parents had the gaul to not only legally change my name, but then asked the Catholic Church to do the same!
No, it is not good to change a child's name to one adoptive parents want. The child is her or his own person and should be treated with compassion and dignity and respect to keep personhood intact.
Perhaps if would be wise to promot Guardainship for children who desperately need new homes. In this way, the child retains name at birth, birth certificate, baptismal certificate, visitation rights to otehr soblinggs, visitation rights to natural parents, and grandparents and extended family. Adoption wipes all of this out as if none of this exists.
So, just a question here. What happens when the child you refer to as your adopted child (apparently, it is okay for you to do this but not me) grows up, changes her mind and no longer agrees with you? What if she does decide that her original name and her original parents are important to her? What if she decides to legally change her name to incorporate her original name? It would be my hope that as her parents, you will find a way to move past your defensiveness and open your heart to whatever it is she needs to feel whole and complete in her sense of identity.
I'm a parent too, Warren. And we seem to have a differing of opinion on some very basic aspects of parenting. It is my feeling that children are not responsible for fulfilling the dreams of adults. In fact, it is my feeling that parenting works in the opposite way. It is a parent's job to help the child reach for their dreams while supporting whatever it is that the child needs to do so. This means that the parent must, on occasion, put aside their own wants and desires to be fully present for the child. Some adopted children (again, I speak with 41 years of experience as an actual adoptee behind me) might need to connect with their ancestry and heritage. Or their original names. Or their country of origin. Or their original parents. These fundamental needs might trump the dream you have of the child not caring at all about these aspects of their identity.
Again, much like Sheena (your wife?), your entire comment focuses on you and what you think. And your comments are extremely finite. You will not be able to speak for your daughter forever. She will eventually grow and mature, reaching a point where she can think for herself. You may have been able to realize YOUR dream of naming a child. But someday, HER dreams will come into play. And will you be prepared to support her if she decides to claim her original name?
I'm going to bow out of this conversation now. Wishing you luck on your journey as an adoptive parent.
There is a big difference in families that have moved to America, who then choose to change their names, & adopting a child from another country & changing their name without that child's request. Did your daughter feel her original name was odd when you first adopted her? She probably found her American name odd sounding, too. If a child never expresses the desire for a name change, but it becomes a problem later, you could help them choose a nickname they prefer at that time.
If names are so important to adoptive parents, they should respect how important they can be for adoptees.
Exactly! I speak from experience...what you think will help her "fit in" with your family actually sentences her to a lifetime of explaining that she is adopted. The constant question, "how is it that you have a German name" or "you don't look German" will be a contant reminder that she actually doesn't "fit in".
Adopting parents think they know best for "their" children, but in fact what you think will lock in your "ownership" will actually be what will separate you.
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