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Old 10-03-2012, 05:06 AM
 
39 posts, read 25,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I'm adopted and my blood is not my identity. I am 22 and know nothing about my blood.
I'm sorry but you are clearly saying that because you don't know your biological relatives that your blood has nothing to do with your identity & I say science begs to differ. How much your environment influences you, what you choose to do, sure that influences your identity but your genetics are a big part of it too & saying that it's not is blank slate adoption industry propaganda.

 
Old 10-03-2012, 05:46 AM
 
203 posts, read 200,489 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I don't think anyone is claiming that genetics are completely unimportant. The debate is really over how important they are.
Nim, you have said yourself that you know nothing about your blood. So how can you say for sure that your genetics are not part of your identity?

I point this out because until I reunited with my original family, I didn't realize just how much of role my genetics do play in my identity. My original dad and I had the same major in college. I pursued a career in the same field as him. I look just like him. We have the same inflections in our voices and the same physical mannerisms. I could forge my original mother's signature because we have the same handwriting. She and I are both extremely chatty and can ramble on about anything. These are all inherent qualities that I certainly did not "inherit" from my adoptive family. These inherent qualities are part of my genetic makeup. And I consider my surnames to be a part of my genetics. My surnames are what connect me to my ancestry and heritage. It is those surnames that I researched when building my tree on Ancestry.com. I'm not an ancestral member of my adoptive family. And that is totally okay. But my genetics are a part of me and helped shape who I am.

Knowing all of this has been extremely grounding for me. Understanding my genetics has helped me to understand myself. And yet, I wasn't able to even begin processing any of this until age 27 when I found my original family.

This is why I find it interesting when people who were raised knowing their ancestry, heritage and genetics claim that blood doesn't matter. They've never been without knowledge of ancestry, heritage and genetics. They do not know of an existence without it. So how can it not matter? They might not focus on it very much. This I understand. Why focus on something that has always been there. But that is different from it not mattering all together.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 05:53 AM
 
1,014 posts, read 987,244 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
We can remember the past in a name that is significant to the family. For me, a name significant to another woman that sounds bad in a new country is no gift. It's more like a ball and chain.
For the record -- who the adoptee was prior to adoption may be seen as a ball & chain to the adoptive parent, but that is a seriously messed up motivation to change an older child's name.

Adoptive parents should also consider that a child may agree to changing their name out of the fear that you will not adopt them. That is basically coercion. You might as well come out & say the truth, "Allow me to re-name you like all the other parents get to name their children or rot in an institution." Of course any child who wants to be adopted will agree, but that doesn't mean it is in their best interest.

If a child expresses they do not like their name or requests a name change on their own, without being solicited prior to the adoption, that is an entirely different scenario of course.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 08:27 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,633,674 times
Reputation: 12537
Quote:
Originally Posted by keribus72 View Post
I'm sorry but you are clearly saying that because you don't know your biological relatives that your blood has nothing to do with your identity & I say science begs to differ. How much your environment influences you, what you choose to do, sure that influences your identity but your genetics are a big part of it too & saying that it's not is blank slate adoption industry propaganda.
My genetics are a part of my identity, sure, but they are not my whole identity. I'm not saying that "just cause I don't know my blood relatives". My opinion is just as valid as yours. Just because several people have been in the same situation doesn't mean they will all feel the same way--and guess what factors into that--genetics! What I disagree with is the premise that my blood is my WHOLE identity. Neither nature nor nurture can be completely ignored and disregarded--both play a factor in how every one of us turns out.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 08:36 AM
 
1,014 posts, read 987,244 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
What I disagree with is the premise that my blood is my WHOLE identity. Neither nature nor nurture can be completely ignored and disregarded--both play a factor in how every one of us turns out.
Nim, I think there has been a misunderstanding? Nurture is often just as important as nature when it comes to identity formation & I don't think anyone is saying that genetics is their ENTIRE identity (as in social factors had nothing to do with their identity), I think they are just saying it is a core part of their identity & so cannot be separated from it. Am I making sense here?
 
Old 10-03-2012, 09:06 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,633,674 times
Reputation: 12537
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcm7189 View Post
Nim, you have said yourself that you know nothing about your blood. So how can you say for sure that your genetics are not part of your identity?
I never said that.

Let me repeat what I said. My genetics are part of my identity. My conditioning is part of my identity. Both factor into my overall identity. Neither nature (genetics) nor nurture (conditioning) can be left out of the equation.

From now on, if you reply to my posts, please reply to what I actually said. Thank you.

Quote:
I point this out because until I reunited with my original family, I didn't realize just how much of role my genetics do play in my identity. My original dad and I had the same major in college. I pursued a career in the same field as him. I look just like him. We have the same inflections in our voices and the same physical mannerisms. I could forge my original mother's signature because we have the same handwriting. She and I are both extremely chatty and can ramble on about anything. These are all inherent qualities that I certainly did not "inherit" from my adoptive family. These inherent qualities are part of my genetic makeup. And I consider my surnames to be a part of my genetics. My surnames are what connect me to my ancestry and heritage. It is those surnames that I researched when building my tree on Ancestry.com. I'm not an ancestral member of my adoptive family. And that is totally okay. But my genetics are a part of me and helped shape who I am.
I'm sorry but I've met a lot of biological parents and children, including my sister who is biologically related to my adoptive parents, and I just don't see such strong parallels. I am not claiming that genetics are completely unimportant, but I I think there are other much stronger factors that go into vocal intonation, college majors, etc. I've had people make comments like "You have this [personality trait] just like your father" or "you have that [physical characteristic] just like your mother"--without realizing they were comparing me to my adoptive parents. I've met people who were not genetically related to my parents or sister, who act and behave just like my parents or sister. In fact, my dad rents to two tenants, and I mistook the tenant's sister for my own sister cause their voice sounds identical. Yes my genetics tell me how likely I am to get cancer or heart disease, in addition to my lifestyle, diet, anxiety levels, etc. People tell my my biological mother and I look identical (I carry a photo in my wallet). But beyond that and medical risks, the rest of the things you mentioned you have in common you could probably just as easily find among non-genetically-related people. Sometimes even then, erroneous parallels can be found. I had my eye doctor go on for about 15 minutes about how one of my eye problems was genetically inherited from my dad, only to realize that he was comparing me to my adoptive dad. So yes, there are parallels there, but I really think most people are so eager to find patterns that they sometimes interpret similarities that are mere coincidences as having some kind of genetic significance.

Quote:
Knowing all of this has been extremely grounding for me. Understanding my genetics has helped me to understand myself. And yet, I wasn't able to even begin processing any of this until age 27 when I found my original family.

This is why I find it interesting when people who were raised knowing their ancestry, heritage and genetics claim that blood doesn't matter. They've never been without knowledge of ancestry, heritage and genetics. They do not know of an existence without it. So how can it not matter? They might not focus on it very much. This I understand. Why focus on something that has always been there. But that is different from it not mattering all together.
Then again, how do you know that all the parallels you found are a result of genetics, and some of them are not mere coincidences? For example, I happen to share the same skin and eye color as my adoptive family, but obviously we aren't genetically related. I'm not saying that none of them are legitimate, but you might be overestimating just how many of them are truly genetic.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 09:09 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,633,674 times
Reputation: 12537
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
Nim, I think there has been a misunderstanding? Nurture is often just as important as nature when it comes to identity formation & I don't think anyone is saying that genetics is their ENTIRE identity (as in social factors had nothing to do with their identity), I think they are just saying it is a core part of their identity & so cannot be separated from it. Am I making sense here?
Yes, I think there has been. I think that, at least you and I, are really saying the same thing.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 09:24 AM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,863,476 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I never said that.

Let me repeat what I said. My genetics are part of my identity. My conditioning is part of my identity. Both factor into my overall identity. Neither nature (genetics) nor nurture (conditioning) can be left out of the equation.

From now on, if you reply to my posts, please reply to what I actually said. Thank you.



I'm sorry but I've met a lot of biological parents and children, including my sister who is biologically related to my adoptive parents, and I just don't see such strong parallels. I am not claiming that genetics are completely unimportant, but I I think there are other much stronger factors that go into vocal intonation, college majors, etc. I've had people make comments like "You have this [personality trait] just like your father" or "you have that [physical characteristic] just like your mother"--without realizing they were comparing me to my adoptive parents. I've met people who were not genetically related to my parents or sister, who act and behave just like my parents or sister. In fact, my dad rents to two tenants, and I mistook the tenant's sister for my own sister cause their voice sounds identical. Yes my genetics tell me how likely I am to get cancer or heart disease, in addition to my lifestyle, diet, anxiety levels, etc. People tell my my biological mother and I look identical (I carry a photo in my wallet). But beyond that and medical risks, the rest of the things you mentioned you have in common you could probably just as easily find among non-genetically-related people. Sometimes even then, erroneous parallels can be found. I had my eye doctor go on for about 15 minutes about how one of my eye problems was genetically inherited from my dad, only to realize that he was comparing me to my adoptive dad. So yes, there are parallels there, but I really think most people are so eager to find patterns that they sometimes interpret similarities that are mere coincidences as having some kind of genetic significance.



Then again, how do you know that all the parallels you found are a result of genetics, and some of them are not mere coincidences? For example, I happen to share the same skin and eye color as my adoptive family, but obviously we aren't genetically related. I'm not saying that none of them are legitimate, but you might be overestimating just how many of them are truly genetic.
What I found more is that I am able to put things more in context more than I did before.

I believe that many personality traits are inherited but don't see them so much as negative and positive personality traits but personality traits that can be expressed in negative and positive ways. Good nurturing can affect those in a positive way. Of course, as many people in the world do share personality traits, one will find that one will share personality traits with various people throughout one's life.

So in regards to personality traits, I for example can see some personality traits that may have come about as a result of adoption and others that seem from my bfamily. Some I do share with both and I think that perhaps they are inherited traits but ones which complement my APs inherited traits if that makes sense.

It is of course all very complex but I do genuinely feel that in my case that meeting bfamily has helped me understand that side more. Others feel differently.

Btw in my case, I didn't really expect to be like my bfamily or bmom and the similarities surprised me.

In fact, I try very hard not to say to myself "wow, see the similarities" but they are there. In fact, when my rellies have said things, I actually am not too sure about what they say but at other times when they are telling just a general story, some things do pop out (and, actually, I never really share them with people).
 
Old 10-03-2012, 09:26 AM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,863,476 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Yes, I think there has been. I think that, at least you and I, are really saying the same thing.
I think that sums it up too (I think I was trying to say that on earlier post)
 
Old 10-03-2012, 09:33 AM
 
203 posts, read 200,489 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I never said that.

Let me repeat what I said. My genetics are part of my identity. My conditioning is part of my identity. Both factor into my overall identity. Neither nature (genetics) nor nurture (conditioning) can be left out of the equation.

From now on, if you reply to my posts, please reply to what I actually said. Thank you.
Nim, my sincerest apologies. This was perhaps poor wording on my part? All I wanted to point out is that until we actually come in contact with our biological families, we really have no way of knowing what is our inherent nature or what has come about through nurturing.

I was trying to be supportive. It is my feeling that as adoptees, we deserve to have all of our information in order to determine how all the pieces fit together. We cannot make that determination if we don't have all of the information. That's what I was trying to say. You and I actually agree on this topic!

And I was admittedly a bit fired up by another comment made by a non-adoptee. My response to you was in the heat of that moment for me and perhaps came out in a way that I did not intend.
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