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Old 10-03-2012, 09:42 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,636,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcm7189 View Post
Nim, my sincerest apologies. This was perhaps poor wording on my part? All I wanted to point out is that until we actually come in contact with our biological families, we really have no way of knowing what is our inherent nature or what has come about through nurturing.

I was trying to be supportive. It is my feeling that as adoptees, we deserve to have all of our information in order to determine how all the pieces fit together. We cannot make that determination if we don't have all of the information. That's what I was trying to say. You and I actually agree on this topic!

And I was admittedly a bit fired up by another comment made by a non-adoptee. My response to you was in the heat of that moment for me and perhaps came out in a way that I did not intend.
Thanks. I really appreciate your apology.

 
Old 10-03-2012, 09:47 AM
 
203 posts, read 200,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Then again, how do you know that all the parallels you found are a result of genetics, and some of them are not mere coincidences? For example, I happen to share the same skin and eye color as my adoptive family, but obviously we aren't genetically related. I'm not saying that none of them are legitimate, but you might be overestimating just how many of them are truly genetic.
There are simply a lot of ways in which I'm inherently different from my adoptive family members. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It is just is what it is. I love 'em and get along with 'em. But there are ways that they are all SOOOOO related to each other in a way that I am not to them. This was something of which I was always aware. And I admit to feeling some jealously at times at how some of my cousins were/are so much like my mother. They look alike, sound alike, think alike. I look, sound and think differently. And I could never really pinpoint how or why.

Then I found my bio fam. And I realized that I am not different from my adoptive family more so than I'm just a whole heck of lot like my biological family. Which of course all makes complete sense! Now when I'm spending time with my adoptive family, I do not focus on how I might feel different. I realize that this is the part of me that comes from my bio fam. I find now that I enjoy the time with the adoptive family so much more now that I have more comprehensive sense of who I am. If I start to feel bummed that my cousin is so much like my mom, I think about how I'm a lot like my bio cousin and get back to enjoying being with my adoptive family. And this works in reverse. When I'm with my bio fam, there are certain ways in which they are nothing like my adoptive family. And yet, I was raised with my adoptive family and approach certain things how they approach things. But I still enjoy the time with my bio fam. Which again, is fine. This is the reality for us adoptees.

I hope this makes sense.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 01:18 PM
 
6 posts, read 4,859 times
Reputation: 29
I think it's totally innapropriate.

I was adopted as an infant. But, we don't stay infants for long! As I grew up I was so very happy to learn that my adoptive parents had retained my original name.

It seems like a simple thing but the fact that they kept my name meant more to me that I can express. It showed so much respect for me and for who I was before adoption.

I don't like how some people act like our lives start from adoption. It doesn't. We existed before our adoptions and the fact that my parents never tried to erase that part of my life earned them my ultimate love, respect and adoration.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 05:16 PM
 
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I think we disagree on a basic premise nimchimpsky, that DNA is who we are is not a matter of opinion to me, it is fact. The comment of yours that I first commented on, you flat out said that your blood is not your identity, you did not say "whole identity", you did not acknowledge that it is even part thereof.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 07:21 PM
 
1,097 posts, read 1,734,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by withoutorigin View Post
I think it's totally innapropriate.

I was adopted as an infant. But, we don't stay infants for long! As I grew up I was so very happy to learn that my adoptive parents had retained my original name.

It seems like a simple thing but the fact that they kept my name meant more to me that I can express. It showed so much respect for me and for who I was before adoption.

I don't like how some people act like our lives start from adoption. It doesn't. We existed before our adoptions and the fact that my parents never tried to erase that part of my life earned them my ultimate love, respect and adoration.
Nicely said in a positive way. I had discussed possible negative consequences. Thanks for pointing out the positives for both you and your parents.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 09:03 PM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,636,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keribus72 View Post
I think we disagree on a basic premise nimchimpsky, that DNA is who we are is not a matter of opinion to me, it is fact. The comment of yours that I first commented on, you flat out said that your blood is not your identity, you did not say "whole identity", you did not acknowledge that it is even part thereof.
My blood isn't my identity. The sum of my genetics and all my life experiences is my identity. "DNA is who we are" disregards that our conditioning has any effect on who we are.
 
Old 10-03-2012, 09:19 PM
 
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We can argue Nature vs nurture until the cows come home.

The following is from Wikipedia:

Nature versus nurture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With a mention of adoption being as follows:

Quote:
Adoption studies also directly measure the strength of shared family effects. Adopted siblings share only family environment. Most adoption studies indicate that by adulthood the personalities of adopted siblings are little or no more similar than random pairs of strangers. This would mean that shared family effects on personality are zero by adulthood. As is the case with personality, non-shared environmental effects are often found to out-weigh shared environmental effects. That is, environmental effects that are typically thought to be life-shaping (such as family life) may have less of an impact than non-shared effects, which are harder to identify. One possible source of non-shared effects is the environment of pre-natal development. Random variations in the genetic program of development may be a substantial source of non-shared environment. These results suggest that "nurture" may not be the predominant factor in "environment". Environment and our situations, do in fact impact our lives, but not the way in which we would typically react to these environmental factors. We are preset with personality traits that are the basis for how we would react to situations. An example would be how extraverted prisoners become less happy than introverted prisoners and would react to their incarceration more negatively due to their preset extraverted personality (Kette,1991). [29]
This bit is certainly true in my afamily:

Most adoption studies indicate that by adulthood the personalities of adopted siblings are little or no more similar than random pairs of strangers.

Actually, I was talking to my amom about this month and that is more or less what she said.
 
Old 10-04-2012, 05:42 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,636,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susankate View Post
We can argue Nature vs nurture until the cows come home.

The following is from Wikipedia:

Nature versus nurture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With a mention of adoption being as follows:



This bit is certainly true in my afamily:

Most adoption studies indicate that by adulthood the personalities of adopted siblings are little or no more similar than random pairs of strangers.

Actually, I was talking to my amom about this month and that is more or less what she said.
I agree with this. My personality is no more similar to my family's than a stranger's. But my biologically-related family's personalities are no more similar to each other than a bunch of strangers either. Honestly, the only common thread my family has is the fact that we're family. We're all very different people. I have no problem with it at all, but I don't feel like the odd duck out for being different because everyone in my family is so different. My dad is smart with numbers. My mom is good with people. My sister is into visual arts. I'm into languages. We have vastly different strengths. My parents and sister are no more similar to each other than they are to me, or I am to them. If you look at my extended biologically-related family, they are even more vastly different.

I really don't buy the idea that being genetically related helps determine what you're going to major in, in college, or any of that. So much of that is also determined by if you have a good math teacher, if your English teacher knew how to not make you fall asleep. Yes, genetics are relevant when it comes to medical history (I have to ask the assistant to cross out that whole page and write "ADOPTED"). I've met a lot of families where two or more of the siblings are gay/bi/trans. I'd be interested to know if any of my birth relatives are LGBTQ (though in Russia they're probably buried deep in the closet). Then again, there are LGBTQ people in my adoptive family (who can actually be openly LGBTQ) too, so it wouldn't be earth-shattering to find my birth family had LGBTQ people in it. I do sometimes feel like the black sheep in my family, and I will admit that. I feel like the black sheep because I often have to hide a lot of my experiences from them--things that I've been through that they've never been through, so they just can't relate. But to chock it all, or even most of it, up to genetics just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Honestly though, my friends and I have a lot more in common, and the reason is because friends are chosen later in life, when you've already developed your personality enough to know what and who you like or don't like. Children don't choose their parents (whether adopted or biological). Friends choose friends. My friends and I share many more of the same interests and values for that very reason. Most of my friends also say that they feel closer to me and their other friends than they do to their families, and they are all biological children.

Last edited by nimchimpsky; 10-04-2012 at 05:56 AM..
 
Old 10-04-2012, 06:12 AM
 
1,014 posts, read 987,479 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
My parents and sister are no more similar to each other than they are to me, or I am to them. If you look at my extended biologically-related family, they are even more vastly different.
You are leaving out physical traits, genetic mirroring, mannerisms, even pheromones. You obviously adapted, but even an infant is capable of picking up these genetic cues.

Quote:
I really don't buy the idea that being genetically related helps determine what you're going to major in, in college, or any of that.
Of course it is not going to determine the outcome 100% of the time, but if you look at twin-studies you can clearly see that there are genetic predispositions & maybe this was not true for your family, Nim, but you cannot deny that it is easier for like-minded family members to raise like-minded children. Are there bio-families that are quirky & different? Absolutey. But do bio-families on average share more similarities than adoptive families over all? Yes. Does this create challenges for many adoptive families? Yes.
 
Old 10-04-2012, 06:20 AM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,849,000 times
Reputation: 3121
Both our kids had very similar Russian names and it would have been confusing in the household. We kept my daughter's name and made it her middle name. We Americanized our son's Russian name but it is very similar to his Russian one. We actually call our daughter by her Russian name at home----sometimes it confuses people when they hear us calling her by her nickname.

My son actually does have a big problem with his name. For some reason, he has fixated on the name "Sam" and wishes that we had named him that, lol. He has brought this up many times over the years and it isn't even close to his American or Russian name. It may become his new nickname, hehe.
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