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I didn't know the actual, and very sad, definition of "internat'", and I couldn't remember "dom rebenka".
I understand that the adoption-related topics which are being discussed here are essential parts of everyone's lives, in various ways. I think we all have become quite sensitive because of that. It seems clear to me that many of us hold very strong views, which may or may not coincide with the views of others here. I think it's important to realize that our different opinions and perceptions come from each of our own individual experiences, and that others' views may not only differ, but that their experiences are also both different and individual.
I'd love to see more mutual respect and acknowledgment of those different experiences as being essential contributors to all our varying views and opinions, so that all of us can become more open to listening to one another, and perhaps learning. It's not necessary to agree on every point, much as some of us might wish it, but it's also not a bad idea to realize that heated discussions usually lead to people getting burned rather than hearts getting warmed.
It also seems clear to me that many here feel very strongly compelled to right wrongs as they perceive them. I think we're all about ending unnecessary pain... but we differ on how we understand the best way(s) to do so.
Thanks for complimenting my writing - though if I ever did write a book, it wouldn't be a textbook!
Yes, the physical condition of children living in orphanages is often quite pitiful...many of them look like, and I suppose in actually are, little waifs. Some schools in Ukraine have turned to uniforms, and I think this is a good move for many reasons.
The caregivers in the "better" baby houses and detsky doms usually do their best, with meager resources, to make the little ones look cute - this can be seen in many of the official photos, where even if a small child has had her head shaved or closely cropped, a big fluffy traditional Russian-Ukrainian hairbow will be plopped on top.
Or the one pretty, fairly new dress is passed around so that every little girl in a groupa (children's orphanage group of about ten, in which children live together, eat and play together, and are taught together. Groupa-mates can become as close as siblings) wears that one pretty dress for her official Department of Adoption photograph. But for everyday, it doesn't matter if a coat or sweater or shirt or shoes are meant for a boy or girl - if they fit, they get worn. Pink is for girls only? Not in the orphanages. If it fits, a little boy may wear pink ruffles as readily as may a little girl.
Often life gets harder as the children pass from the baby house to the detsky dom, then on to the internat, as they receive less individual attention and are expected to do more for themselves. Of course, teaching self-reliance is not a bad thing - but it's sad to see it in a tiny child, and to see children of all ages so deprived of positive, affectionate adult attention that they swarm visitors, cling to hands and arms, and are desperate for individual attention. Adoptive parents I know have all had their hearts broken by the children they could not adopt, and have consistently said, "I wished I could have taken them all home"...Many such families donate materially to the orphanages where their children formerly lived, and such help is welcomed by the orphanage staffs.
All of us posting here, like those visiting adoptive parents, wish the children of the world all had loving and stable homes and families, be they families of origin, foster families, or adoptive families. I don't know of one person here who would not wish that all of the world's children were loved, safe, and cared for.
It's just how to achieve that wish which creates disagreement.
I don't. I think it sounds oily. It might be a language thing. I know a Russian speaker , a good friend who hate the word adorable because in Russian a work like it means born inside out or deformed. I don't know the word.
So back on topic - any ideas for new names for the two younger kids Olga and Oleg?
The older boy is Michael or Mikhail.
Oleg sounds like " a leg". And a nasty fashion designer my father knew who gave me a job in his home.
I really would like help with this. Oleg, is in Russian countries not even a young person's name. My friend tells me this.
It deeply disturbs me the amount of contempt for the countries and cultures some people are showing while trying to adopt from those same countries. Yes, each country has unpleasant and down right revolting things about their culture, INCLUDING THIS ONE, yet, adoptive parents are summing up entire cultures based on orphanages or treating animals as food stock (and really not a huge difference morally between eating a pig or eating a dog). How terrible to raise a child born in a culture that one obviously has such dripping disdain for, no wonder there is forever a small subset of self-hating adoptees who hate their race.
Craig, I thought you had some wonderful ideas. Your posts are always interesting to read because of your great knowledge about the Ukraine.
Btw I wasn't sure what "ditsky dom" meant, so I googled it and it sounded to me like "detski dom" is a word used for orphanage, the original detski dom being an experimental school in Russia. Perhaps you could expand on that and enlighten us more, Craig?
Detski dom and ditsky dom are two transliterations for the same Russian term, детский дом dyetskiy dom, which, literally word-for-word, means "children's home", but translates as "orphanage".
In Ukraine, Russia, and other countries which were once part of the former Soviet Union, there are "baby houses" for infants through age three or four (I can't remember the Russian words for "baby house", then detsky doms, then "internats", or "boarding school orphanages" for children ages seven or eight through sixteen or seventeen. Sometimes children who live nearby with their families also attend school in the internats, as day students.
Ikb0714:
I have posted a lot about Ukraine and Ukrainian orphanages and institutions recently. Some of my comments could be interpreted as critical of conditions in the orphanages and institutions, which are often poorly funded, have untrained staffs, house people of all ages who have been sent there for unclear reasons, and are lacking, for many reasons.
However, Ukrainian officials who deal with adoptions and orphanages are trying to make changes, often under extremely difficult circumstances with contributing factors including cultural history and practices, the sad legacy of the Stalinist era, economic imbalance, high rates of poverty, unemployment, alcoholism, drug addiction, and FAS/FAE and HIV/AIDs among those parents whose children frequently wind up in the orphanage system for whatever reason. In addition, I have written of several NGOs which focus on Ukraine's orphanages and institutions in various ways.
Recognizing that Ukraine's orphanage system is flawed and that there are many problems in Ukrainian society does not mean that I do not find Ukraine, Ukrainians, their traditional and contemporary cultures and rich history of boundless interest and worthy of great respect.
I urge adoptive parents of children originally from Ukraine (or any other country, for that matter) to teach their children about the country of their birth and its traditions, and to encourage them to consider returning someday if they so wish, to visit, explore, or perhaps reconnect with their biological family members or earlier friends.
One can love a country or society, and still recognize its flaws and need for improvement, and so take personal action to help it address those weaknesses and needs.
I don't. I think it sounds oily. It might be a language thing. I know a Russian speaker , a good friend who hate the word adorable because in Russian a work like it means born inside out or deformed. I don't know the word.
So back on topic - any ideas for new names for the two younger kids Olga and Oleg?
The older boy is Michael or Mikhail.
Oleg sounds like " a leg". And a nasty fashion designer my father knew who gave me a job in his home.
I really would like help with this. Oleg, is in Russian countries not even a young person's name. My friend tells me this.
I love the nickname "Misha" for Mikhail and I think it sounds very nice to American ears.
Oleg does sound a bit formal, or like something you'd call a middle-aged man in Russian, not a young kid. Russian uses a lot of diminutive name forms, so here are some you could use: Olezhka (where zh = s in vision), Olezhen'ka, Olezhechka, Olegushka, Olezhek, Lega, Leka, Lesha. Honestly I think the only ones that American could grasp would be Olezhek, Lega, Leka, and Lesha. Lega is the same as Oleg in terms of sounding like "leg", IMO. Leka and Lesha would more accurately be approximated to the Russian by using the Lay-kuh and Lay-shuh American pronunciations (as opposed to the Lee-kuh and Lee-shuh ones). But then Leka would sound a lot like Lake-a so I think Lesha is your best bet, though he will probably be mistaken for female on paper a lot (since Leisha is an actual female name).
Last edited by nimchimpsky; 09-25-2012 at 08:34 PM..
I just checked another Russian language nickname site (which in my haste I neglected to note), which indicated that "Alik" could be a nickname for Oleg. I thought "Alik" was more common for Alexander, but perhaps "Sasha" goes with Alexander and "Alik" goes with Oleg?? Nim, can you enlighten us?
"Alec" would be the more common American/English language spelling for "Alik", but the pronunciation is the same or very, very similar...perhaps this would be a solution acceptable to all.
Once you get to know them a bit, you might ask them if they'd like to use American nicknames "just for fun" while they are visiting. "Olesya" is pronounced "O-LAY-sia", so perhaps she could be called "Lacey" and her actual name could be retained. "Alicia" also has a very similar sound. Also, "Olga" is often pronounced "Ol-ya" in Ukraine. St. Olga figured prominently in the early history of the Russian Orthodox Church, hence there are many Olgas in Russia and Ukraine.
Olga also gets shortened to Olya in Russian. Most Olgas I know go by Olya, except when they're old ladies that have long nails and wear too much perfume, then it's Olga.
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