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RAD sounds a lot like drapetomania to me - a child that retains a strong bond to its mother in spite of separation is displaying healthy traits - babies are not supposed to trust and bond to random strangers who pick them up.
"Someone on here said about adoptees blaming everything on their adoption - however, the reality for many adoptees is that at no time are they ever even allowed to consider that adoption is even a factor in their issues."
Took me years to find a counselor who would even acknowledge the effects of adoption. He read 'The Primal Wound' by Nancy Verrier and was struck by the depth of the effects - many persist throughout one's entire life. Many adoptees experience 'triggers' that cause strong emotions to come boiling up uncontrollably. This affects our relationships at home, school and work as well as within our families. Unlike most with PTSD, adoptees have no pre-trauma personality to reference and have no idea they are even damaged - they take their state for granted, thinking it is normal. When they discover it isn't, many wrongly blame themselves.
RAD sounds a lot like drapetomania to me - a child that retains a strong bond to its mother in spite of separation is displaying healthy traits - babies are not supposed to trust and bond to random strangers who pick them up.
"Someone on here said about adoptees blaming everything on their adoption - however, the reality for many adoptees is that at no time are they ever even allowed to consider that adoption is even a factor in their issues."
Took me years to find a counselor who would even acknowledge the effects of adoption. He read 'The Primal Wound' by Nancy Verrier and was struck by the depth of the effects - many persist throughout one's entire life. Many adoptees experience 'triggers' that cause strong emotions to come boiling up uncontrollably. This affects our relationships at home, school and work as well as within our families. Unlike most with PTSD, adoptees have no pre-trauma personality to reference and have no idea they are even damaged - they take their state for granted, thinking it is normal. When they discover it isn't, many wrongly blame themselves.
Wow, this is really interesting. I have a lot of PTSD triggers that I can tie to abuse but there are some that I have never understood and never been able to relate to any kind of trauma. The answer might lie in this. Thanks for posting.
I think too many adoptees are diagnosed with RAD as a means of pathologizing behavior that is just normal for the child but perhaps not in line with the family. For example, a friend is adopted, and very sporty, but his afamily is very, very bookish. His energy level was denigrated and he was put down and punished for wanting to do things other than the rest of the biologically related family, until he was told that his difference was RAD. I also find the holding therapies to be disgusting and cruel.
That said, there can be anxieties and disconnect related to trauma, and definitely the triggers that Scott talked about. I saw myself again and again as the "good" adoptee in Verrier's book; she describes how adoptees can react to the experience of trauma either by acting out or by conforming as perfectly as possible. I threw myself into my studies, was an honor student and eventually valedictorian; went to an accoladed East Coast liberal arts college; studied abroad for a Master's; and earned a Ph.D. at a top-tier university for my subject. I pushed myself to be the best, but at the same time, I never believed I was the best.
As far as parenting goes, my mother stayed at home with me full time until I was 12. She was concerned because I, too, had been handed around like a potato until I was taken home at 10 weeks old.
I didn't really drink and never smoked, and no one even offered me drugs until I was 24 years old, I was so nerdy. I did desperately want a boyfriend, though, and went through them like Kleenex from the time I was thirteen. There was one boy I really liked, and he was my "ideal"; when we were off (which we were mostly), i would toy with the emotions of boy-of-the-week. I was unkind and fairly thoughtless, and I think this was because I wanted to keep things superficial so that whoever he was couldn't hurt me first. I had enormous problems with trust and self-esteem. I didn't really value or love myself until I was 35, which is quite sad. I made many questionable relationship choices, including my marriage, which has enormously stark good and bad points.
Lack of early bonding and trust definitely has lasting repercussions. I think the best thing an adoptive parent can do is be present and listen and read widely about adoptee experiences, while not projecting their own anxieties onto the child, or expecting them to be anyone other than themselves. My mother said that she learned much from Nancy Verrier, and wished she had had "The Primal Wound" as a resource when I was little.
Almost all adoptees have 2 pieces of information, no matter what their circumstances, they somehow come to terms with as they grow. Someone gave them up[unless they were orphaned]; and that person is their genetic parent.
It is not uncommon for an adoptee to think at some point that either something is wrong with them to have been given up, or something is wrong with their birth-parent/s for doing so. And if something is wrong with their b-parent/s, than it might be a something that could be genetic and effect them too. Someone outside the adoptees head can try to reason it away, but even in a completely loving situation, many adoptees mull this over & few can be sheltered from encountering comments, innocent questions, movies, etc. which feed into those thoughts.
How an adoptee and the people around them navigate that catch 22 can color their whole life. If problems show up at some point & it is not recognized that an adoptee's life has at it's base 2 pieces of information with the potential to negatively effect how they view themselves, then whomever is trying to help is missing some key info.
I think too many adoptees are diagnosed with RAD as a means of pathologizing behavior that is just normal for the child but perhaps not in line with the family. For example, a friend is adopted, and very sporty, but his afamily is very, very bookish. His energy level was denigrated and he was put down and punished for wanting to do things other than the rest of the biologically related family, until he was told that his difference was RAD. I also find the holding therapies to be disgusting and cruel.
That said, there can be anxieties and disconnect related to trauma, and definitely the triggers that Scott talked about. I saw myself again and again as the "good" adoptee in Verrier's book; she describes how adoptees can react to the experience of trauma either by acting out or by conforming as perfectly as possible. I threw myself into my studies, was an honor student and eventually valedictorian; went to an accoladed East Coast liberal arts college; studied abroad for a Master's; and earned a Ph.D. at a top-tier university for my subject. I pushed myself to be the best, but at the same time, I never believed I was the best.
As far as parenting goes, my mother stayed at home with me full time until I was 12. She was concerned because I, too, had been handed around like a potato until I was taken home at 10 weeks old.
I didn't really drink and never smoked, and no one even offered me drugs until I was 24 years old, I was so nerdy. I did desperately want a boyfriend, though, and went through them like Kleenex from the time I was thirteen. There was one boy I really liked, and he was my "ideal"; when we were off (which we were mostly), i would toy with the emotions of boy-of-the-week. I was unkind and fairly thoughtless, and I think this was because I wanted to keep things superficial so that whoever he was couldn't hurt me first. I had enormous problems with trust and self-esteem. I didn't really value or love myself until I was 35, which is quite sad. I made many questionable relationship choices, including my marriage, which has enormously stark good and bad points.
Lack of early bonding and trust definitely has lasting repercussions. I think the best thing an adoptive parent can do is be present and listen and read widely about adoptee experiences, while not projecting their own anxieties onto the child, or expecting them to be anyone other than themselves. My mother said that she learned much from Nancy Verrier, and wished she had had "The Primal Wound" as a resource when I was little.
Lol you could have described me. As a teen, I read Physics books by people like Richard Feynman and asked my parents' physician friends if I could read their subscriptions to the American Journal of [insert medical sub-speciality here]. I had not one, but two pairs of coke-bottle glasses because of my visual impairment, so I definitely "looked the part". I was working as a translator at age 13 and taught myself half of the languages I know on the Internet (Wikipedia's not all bad--it's free and unlike print books you can enlarge the font size), practicing with native speakers that I happened to meet. I've only had alcohol once to see what it's like (at age 22) and only had sex for the first time at age 21. I had to get into the top school for my field and I have to work 10 times harder at it to prove myself cause I'm the first ever Blind student in a field that's considered very "visual". I haven't gotten my Ph.D. yet lol, but who knows if I'm not headed in that direction....I definitely want to get a Master's in Linguistics. I have to get straight A's in school or I can't live with myself. And like you even when people tell me I'm the "best" I never believe it. People tell me I am the best student in my field right now, even people who created the field and who offered to tutor me to "match me at my level" and I still have a hard time believing it. I definitely never thought of that as being related to adoption but I do know that when I dig deep enough, a part of me feels sorry for existing and like I don't deserve to be here as much as the next person, and I wonder if that is a result of having been abandoned as a newborn and the subconscious message that sends. I also wonder if that is why I have a knack for getting myself into abusive relationships. I always tell myself this will be the last one and then a year later when I realize it's too late, then I find myself in another abusive situation, only in a different way. Who knows if that's all connected or not, but it would be interesting to hear a bunch of adoptees talk about their lives and see if there aren't any recurring patterns. That said, my parents never saw my difference in interests as being related to adoption. My family is into fashion and shopping and traveling and I'm into languages and music. Unlike most kids who make their kids pick up the piano, I asked my parents if I could learn the piano at 6 and the guitar at age 9 and if I could take voice lessons at age 10. I've been writing songs since I was 9 and was in two jazz bands. I'm the only musical person in my immediate family--everyone else is into visual arts--but I don't see that as RAD or anything.
Last edited by nimchimpsky; 09-22-2012 at 06:12 AM..
I definitely never thought of that as being related to adoption but I do know that when I dig deep enough, a part of me feels sorry for existing and like I don't deserve to be here as much as the next person, and I wonder if that is a result of having been abandoned as a newborn and the subconscious message that sends.
Nim, I'm sure most of the adoptees here will tell you this is a very common feeling for us. There is also literature on the subject & if you read some of these books I would not be surprised if you felt, "Have these people been watching me?" I was very much in denial that adoption could have had any negative impact on me until I got hit over the head with a 2x4 of information in my twenties, which triggered me in ways that I could no longer deny the impact.
After that I started to remember how hard I struggled with being adopted as a child & was able to piece together from stories my aparents told me that, "DUH, of course being separated from my mother impacted me. & of course feeling abandoned as a baby/child impacted me, even if I learned to adapt & rationalize it as a teen/young adult."
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I also wonder if that is why I have a knack for getting myself into abusive relationships. I always tell myself this will be the last one and then a year later when I realize it's too late, then I find myself in another abusive situation, only in a different way. Who knows if that's all connected or not, but it would be interesting to hear a bunch of adoptees talk about their lives and see if there aren't any recurring patterns.
I think it can be a mix of unresolved adoption & abuse issues. When you are used to having your boundaries violated from such a young age, it can set you up to recreate similar scenarios as an adult as it is what we are most familiar with. Throw into the mix wish/fear of abandonment & the need to prove self-worth that adoptees can really struggle with & you have a very unfortunate mix of predispositions.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 09-22-2012 at 06:57 AM..
Nim, I'm sure most of the adoptees here will tell you this is a very common feeling for us. There is also literature on the subject & if you read some of these books I would not be surprised if you felt, "Have these people been watching me?" I was very much in denial that adoption could have had any negative impact on me until I got hit over the head with a 2x4 of information in my twenties, which triggered me in ways that I could no longer deny the impact.
After that I started to remember how hard I struggled with being adopted as a child & was able to piece together from stories my aparents told me that, "DUH, of course being separated from my mother impacted me. & of course feeling abandoned as a baby/child impacted me, even if I learned to adapt & rationalize it as a teen/young adult."
I think it can be a mix of unresolved adoption & abuse issues. When you are used to having your boundaries violated from such a young age, it can set you up to recreate similar scenarios as an adult as it is what we are most familiar with. Throw into the mix wish/fear of abandonment & the need to prove self-worth that adoptees can really struggle with & you have a very unfortunate mix of predispositions.
Thanks for your post. It is very validating, which I have to admit is a nice feeling and not something I'm used to! Lol.
Thanks for your post. It is very validating, which I have to admit is a nice feeling and not something I'm used to! Lol.
Always happy to validate a fellow adoptee when I can.
Getting back to RAD,
My abrother probably would have been diagnosed with RAD because he acted out. I would not have because I conformed & became a perfectionist... ironically, my brother bonded more with my parents than I ever did & I bonded to almost all of my friend's parents instead. Failure to attach is only seen as a problem if the child acts out, rather than understanding that acting out is due to unresolved grief & that even the "good adoptee" can struggle with attachment.
Always happy to validate a fellow adoptee when I can.
Getting back to RAD,
My abrother probably would have been diagnosed with RAD because he acted out. I would not have because I conformed & became a perfectionist... ironically, my brother bonded more with my parents than I ever did & I bonded to almost all of my friend's parents instead. Failure to attach is only seen as a problem if the child acts out, rather than understanding that acting out is due to unresolved grief & that even the "good adoptee" can struggle with attachment.
Very true. I never really attached to my mother, though I did to my father. And like you, I was never diagnosed specifically with RAD, but my therapists always talked about me having "attachment issues" in a more vague way.
Sorry I can't type this morning! A loud alarm went off and I go to a deaf school so no one else noticed it but me! lol.
Very true. I never really attached to my mother, though I did to my father. And like you, I was never diagnosed specifically with RAD, but my therapists always talked about me having "attachment issues" in a more vague way.
Sorry I can't type this morning! A loud alarm went off and I go to a deaf school so no one else noticed it but me! lol.
I think that is pretty common, too, being able to attach to the adad but not the amom. I was definitely closer to my father than my mother, although I don't know if we ever truly bonded.
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I think too many adoptees are diagnosed with RAD as a means of pathologizing behavior that is just normal for the child but perhaps not in line with the family. For example, a friend is adopted, and very sporty, but his afamily is very, very bookish. His energy level was denigrated and he was put down and punished for wanting to do things other than the rest of the biologically related family, until he was told that his difference was RAD. I also find the holding therapies to be disgusting and cruel.
