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Old 09-05-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552

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Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
I might have mentioned this before but the owner of the agency we dealt with for our last adoptions was a woman who had 3 bio sons and then started collecting kids (ended up with 20 or more ). Most were from failed international adoptions from her agency but some were domestic crack babies and such. She and her husband got into a great deal of trouble and their licenses were revoked because of fraud and a lot of clients who gave them tens of thousands of dollars and never got kids.

Eventually they got divorced and the husband got custody of all the minor kids while the woman married some wealthy guy and doesn't mother the kids at all. So very sad. I have to say I'm suspicious of children collectors- hoarders too.

That reeks of child collecting also. To deny that it's there is silly. It's here in the adoption community and with biological families such as the Duggere's (Nineteen Kids and Counting) who are extreme fundamentalist Christians and feel that there is a biblical mandate to reproduce.

But let's get back to international adoptions.

 
Old 09-05-2012, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,187 posts, read 14,950,488 times
Reputation: 18248
I would have to agree with the poster that said to take out the word "international". We tried to adopt through 2 states, an older child and any race with approved homestudy but never any luck. We ended up getting an infant with special needs from a private agency that handled infant adoption. None of their clients were interested in our son. Their loss. But, all the stuff we got hit with from others, we had no idea how negative nearly everyone would be. I got so tired of trying to explain and still, 26 years later..............Someone even said that a lot of people adopt just to get the subsidy! I said "We get no subsidy and we paid to adopt!" Yeah, try to adopt those waiting children? Tell them to read about the "Adoption Maze"! I guess they just don't have the ability to understand why people adopt or the ability to keep their inappropriate questions to themselves.
 
Old 09-05-2012, 04:11 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552
There is no question that many people are antagonistic towards international adoption.

They have they same bias against any adoption with the added "guilt trip" of all of those American kids out there who need a home.

This bias does exist.
 
Old 09-05-2012, 05:40 PM
 
1,097 posts, read 1,727,503 times
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Out of curiosity, why do US parents choose international adoptions over adopting in the US? I think the criticism is from the perceived motivation. What IS the motivation?

I disagree that people who are biased against international adoption are biased against adoption in general. Of course if you are against adoption, you are against ALL adoptions. But there are those who specifically & only have objections to international adoption.
 
Old 09-05-2012, 06:05 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552
Quote:
Originally Posted by nj185 View Post
Out of curiosity, why do US parents choose international adoptions over adopting in the US? I think the criticism is from the perceived motivation. What IS the motivation?

I disagree that people who are biased against international adoption are biased against adoption in general. Of course if you are against adoption, you are against ALL adoptions. But there are those who specifically & only have objections to international adoption.

I disagree also. More people are against or suspicious of international adoption than domestic adoption.


I willl be happy to answer your question at least for myself. Others who have adopted internationally may have other reasons.

1. We want a closed adoption. No contact with the birth parents. Or relatives. People in foreign countries want this as well. When they reliquish their child for adoption they want to move on.

2.No conditions attached to the adoption.

3. privacy

4. If you are adopting an American infant, the birth mother gets to choose you. I want to choose the child. I don't like the idea of having to pass the muster of a pregnant teenager,

5. Ability to adopt younger children. When we are not talking about infant adoption, the US Foster Care System's first goal is reunification. US foster care children, if they are healthy, are generally over the age of ten by the time social services releases them for adoption. Many are in their teens and have established habits and personalities.

6. American children from foster care are choosy about who adopts them. They want to be the oldest, or youngest, they need this or that. They often have specific demands and you are expected to cater to these.

7. Children age 6 and over from foreign countries know that their options are limited and in usually know someone who was adopted by Americans. They are motivated and, in general want this for their selves.
 
Old 09-05-2012, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,474 posts, read 43,574,205 times
Reputation: 47214
Just read any of the various threads about adoption. Here is a good place to start.

adoption-stupid rude comments
 
Old 09-05-2012, 08:35 PM
 
1,097 posts, read 1,727,503 times
Reputation: 1590
I understand the reasons you gave & don't make assumptions, but some of them leave people open to the suspicions of outsiders who know little about them personally. The privacy concerns and "no conditions" are something they could hang their criticism on. The "no conditions" thing is a double-edged sword. It makes giving a child a loving home easier, but leaves open the possibility that some totally unprepared people may be winging it for less than stellar reasons. So, some of the very reasons for international adoptions seem to be what draw criticism.


Personally, I think that an international adoption would be especially challenging - for the rest of your life :+) How do you honor the adoptees culture while providing the best integration into your family, town etc [assuming it is obvious to your child & others that they are from another culture]? Naturally challenges can bring rewards, and amazing families can be created.

As to stupid & rude comments - when you make a choice in private which you never show the world, you can expect no criticism. When you make a choice which is both public & "different" & exposes not only you but your precious child to "dumb questions" & comments, you should responsibly prepare yourself to be an ambassador for your choice.
 
Old 09-05-2012, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,474 posts, read 43,574,205 times
Reputation: 47214
Quote:
Originally Posted by nj185 View Post
When you make a choice which is both public & "different" & exposes not only you but your precious child to "dumb questions" & comments, you should responsibly prepare yourself to be an ambassador for your choice.


50 times a day? Every time you walk out the door?

You are missing the whole point. WE ARE NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE OTHERS TO DO WHAT WE DID. WE JUST WANT TO BUILD OUR FAMILIES. We aren't responsible for the ignorance and bias of others. We don't want to be ambassadors. WE JUST WANT TO BUILD OUR FAMILIES. If you had a C section instead of a vaginal birth do you think you need to be an ambassador for C sections? If you built your family by IVF do you think you have a responsibility to defend your choice and convince others to do the same?
I don't owe one single person any explanation for how and why we built our family the way we did. WE JUST WANTED TO BUILD OUR FAMILY.
 
Old 09-06-2012, 12:09 AM
 
654 posts, read 907,357 times
Reputation: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
[/b]

50 times a day? Every time you walk out the door?

You are missing the whole point. WE ARE NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE OTHERS TO DO WHAT WE DID. WE JUST WANT TO BUILD OUR FAMILIES. We aren't responsible for the ignorance and bias of others. We don't want to be ambassadors. WE JUST WANT TO BUILD OUR FAMILIES. If you had a C section instead of a vaginal birth do you think you need to be an ambassador for C sections? If you built your family by IVF do you think you have a responsibility to defend your choice and convince others to do the same?
I don't owe one single person any explanation for how and why we built our family the way we did. WE JUST WANTED TO BUILD OUR FAMILY.
I've had csections and went through fertility treatment, not IVF though. It was really really hard to hide the fact that I was going through fertility treatments for a variety of reasons. People certainly have opinions on both of them, and make various statements.

I agree that you don't owe anyone an explanation. However I think that people can have opinions/observations about the process.

I don't think everyone who adopts is necessarily a saint. I don't think it always works out in the best interest of the children, and I think it is okay to have a discussion about that. I'm not sure if the OP is talking about people having misconceptions in general, or if people have specifically attacked her. I personally know two different cases where children were adopted from abroad, where things really didn't work out. In one case it was an older child, who is now an adult in the working world. I'm not sure that her adoptive parents really tried very hard for the challenges that would face her once she turned 18. There was definitely corruption in her home country involved in her adoption.

Another very sad story was of a local family where the man killed all 4 of his internationally adopted children, he also killed himself and his wife. I have to think that particularly the financial stressors from adopting not one but 4 children took their toll.
 
Old 09-06-2012, 05:31 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552
Who on earth said that we wanted to be ambassabors for our choice? Most of us just want to be FAMILIES!

The OP would be me. And I personally am sick and tired of being told who I should adopt or where I should adopt from.

The instances of parents who kill biological children dwarf any rare occurrence of an adoptive parent doing the same.

As far as the "terms and conditions" attached to adopting slightly older children, why does it annoy anyone that I don't want any? No I do not want to travel 500 miles away from my home so that my daughter can have a relationship with a biological half brother or a former foster parent, and I am not sure that it is ?in the best interest of the child" to do so. I think it is not.And attachment theory would be on my side.

When we adopt, as when we give birth OUR extended family becomes the child's extended family. Who says we want all of these random and extraneous people in our lives?

Several times I asked my daughter if she was curious if she had any half siblings in Korea. She finally told me to "quit asking her about that". She has no interest. None.

She is a mature highly intelligent sixteen year old. She asked to read the papers concerning her adoption, and I let her.She thought it was funny that as an infant she "was startled by the sound of a gong" a test they must have done for cognitive or auditory purposes saying " why would they think I wouldn't be startled by the sound of a big freakin GONG!"
We had a laugh over that. She was also happy that the papers described her birth mom as "pretty" and her dad as "nice and easy going", And you know what? That was that.

I think that it is peculiarly American to fabricate needs that children may or may not have and to want to revisit and manufacture traumas that do not exist. My daughter is a pragmatic person, much as I am, and while loving she is not steeped in sentiment about a woman who she has met briefly or a country that she does not remember.

Similarly, American social services gives too many chances to people who clearly have a "talent" for reproduction - but for little else. And certainly not for parenting. The youngest most adoptable children are sent back for visits to the woman who birthed them in effort to reunify a "family" that just never was. And sometimes they are abused during these visists. Other times they do not return at all.

Because a woman went on a date one night with a man, and things got a little hot and heavy, does not mean that a family was ever planned.

My family and all of the families who I know that were forged by adoption, were carefully planned and prepared for.

Foreign countries do not indulge people who have made a mistake and they are realistic in knowing that the adoptive family really does not want contact or a relationship with strangers.

Perhaps more people would think about domestic adoption if the deck were not so heavily weighted on the side of the biological parents, and if the best interests of both the child and their prospective parents, who will do the hard work of raising that child, were looked at in a different light.

Last edited by sheena12; 09-06-2012 at 05:40 AM..
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