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Old 09-26-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,570 posts, read 23,071,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
Mightyqueen, there are some celebrities who support special needs adoptions financially and with matching funds. Patricia Heaton is a BIG supporter of Reece's Rainbow. Other celebrities have donated directly to poor orphanages, even when they were unable to adopt.

I think the general lack of awareness of just how bad conditions are in many orphanages and institutions in the developing world makes it easy for uninformed people of all economic levels to say, "Oh, we give to children's causes here at home, and charity should begin at home".

Perhaps, but should it also end there?
I hear that less in the "celebrity community" than I do in the general public!

In an earlier time in my life I took a semester at NYU and studied Journalism and obtained a position as a staff writer for a Rock Magazine. At that time the Punk, New Wave Scene was burgeoning at CBGBs.
I interviewed, wrote about and subsequently became friends with bands and artists such as The Ramones, Talking Heads, Patti Smith, Blondie, and former back up singers for Blondie and proprietors of Manic Panic Tish and Snookey. (NO NOT that SNOOKI) Eileen and Patrice Bellamo.

Tish and Snookey are generous contributors to charities many children's charities and to Animal Rights organizations - both are vega*ns.

I and others have been the recipients of their continued generosity and friendship with our shared passions. These two performers and entrepreneurs, as well as others, are strong believers in international adoption.

Debbie Harry, AKA Blondie, is an adopted person herself. Asside from a phase when she fancied herself as Marylin Monroe's birthchild - for obvious reasons, this talented and still beautiful woman remains an adoption advocate.
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
55,370 posts, read 54,034,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I hear that less in the "celebrity community" than I do in the general public!

In an earlier time in my life I took a semester at NYU and studied Journalism and obtained a position as a staff writer for a Rock Magazine. At that time the Punk, New Wave Scene was burgeoning at CBGBs.
I interviewed, wrote about and subsequently became friends with bands and artists such as The Ramones, Talking Heads, Patti Smith, Blondie, and former back up singers for Blondie and proprietors of Manic Panic Tish and Snookey. (NO NOT that SNOOKI) Eileen and Patrice Bellamo.

Tish and Snookey are generous contributors to charities many children's charities and to Animal Rights organizations - both are vega*ns.

I and others have been the recipients of their continued generosity and friendship with our shared passions. These two performers and entrepreneurs, as well as others, are strong believers in international adoption.

Debbie Harry, AKA Blondie, is an adopted person herself. Asside from a phase when she fancied herself as Marylin Monroe's birthchild - for obvious reasons, this talented and still beautiful woman remains an adoption advocate.

Interesting stuff!

Another famous adopted person who comes to mind is the late author James Michener. He was left on the front porch of a widow by the name of Mabel Michener as an infant. He said that growing up, he wondered who his parents had been and why he had been dumped so unceremoniously, but at the age of 19 he realized he was never going to know the answers to his questions and decided just to move forward. And move he did, all over the world.

Not long ago I met another lady, in her late Sixties, who also started life in a similar manner. She was found by the front door of somebody's house in Newark, NJ, wrapped in a tower, umbilical cord still attached. Another neighbor took her in and eventually legally adopted her.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:09 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,570 posts, read 23,071,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcm7189 View Post
It is my feeling that if people *need to raise funds* in order to afford an adoption, this speaks directly to a problem within the adoption industry itself. If there are so many children truly in need around the world, why aren't countries begging people to take them in? Why does it cost the same amount as a luxury SUV to obtain a child that is so in need? Perhaps because people are willing to pay and don't question it. Which could make it seem that the adoption industry follows the traditional business model based on supply and demand. As long as there is a demand and consumers are willing to pay the prices set, the industry will do everything it can to meet the demand and keep the prices rising.

The industry seems to have a lot of people duped and literally at its mercy. Wonder what would happen if people demanded a reduction in fees and refused to feed the system unless things changed? Rhetorical question not aimed at anyone in particular. Just a personal thought of mine. No need to respond or react.
The adoption industry is part of Capitalism. The finacial system some confuse with democracy. They are not synonymous.

Since we live is a country that worship a "free market economy" i.e. Capitalism, it's gonna be a tough sell to put the breaks on this train.

The adoption industry has issues, Overpaying themselves while calling themselves "not profits" particularly ticks me off.

Paying one's self a living wage for actual work done, is not obscene. At least not to me. Socail Workers have the right to charge for a home study and there are agencies that perform home studies on sliding scales. We chose one the first time and we are doing that again. There are agencies who penalize parents for using non profit home study agencies by charging a "home study review fee".

There are people with boundless amounts of money who will do anything and pay anything to adopt an infant. There are people who want to be grandparents of infants who fund this with out question.

There will always be people who only want white infants.

This creates greedy agencies and greedy birth mothers and pathetic families who will stoop to advertising themselves to get the attention of a teen age mom.

This is why we are cutting out the middle man and adopting independently.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:12 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,570 posts, read 23,071,638 times
Reputation: 48455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Interesting stuff!

Another famous adopted person who comes to mind is the late author James Michener. He was left on the front porch of a widow by the name of Mabel Michener as an infant. He said that growing up, he wondered who his parents had been and why he had been dumped so unceremoniously, but at the age of 19 he realized he was never going to know the answers to his questions and decided just to move forward. And move he did, all over the world.

Not long ago I met another lady, in her late Sixties, who also started life in a similar manner. She was found by the front door of somebody's house in Newark, NJ, wrapped in a tower, umbilical cord still attached. Another neighbor took her in and eventually legally adopted her.
Never knew this.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:06 PM
 
116 posts, read 85,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
The adoption industry is part of Capitalism. The finacial system some confuse with democracy. They are not synonymous.

Since we live is a country that worship a "free market economy" i.e. Capitalism, it's gonna be a tough sell to put the breaks on this train.

The adoption industry has issues, Overpaying themselves while calling themselves "not profits" particularly ticks me off.

Paying one's self a living wage for actual work done, is not obscene. At least not to me. Socail Workers have the right to charge for a home study and there are agencies that perform home studies on sliding scales. We chose one the first time and we are doing that again. There are agencies who penalize parents for using non profit home study agencies by charging a "home study review fee".

There are people with boundless amounts of money who will do anything and pay anything to adopt an infant. There are people who want to be grandparents of infants who fund this with out question.

There will always be people who only want white infants.

This creates greedy agencies and greedy birth mothers and pathetic families who will stoop to advertising themselves to get the attention of a teen age mom.

This is why we are cutting out the middle man and adopting independently.
GREEDY BIRTH MOTHERS?

WHAT?

Sheena, you really have no idea what you are talking about!

The ones who are greedy are the pre-adoptive parents who convince a pregnant teen or young woman that she cannot possibly be a good mother to the baby she is pregnant with because she doesn't have enough resources to provide for "the" child. So the pre-adoptive couple tell of how much money they have, what kind of educatioon they can pay for, that they have a built-in pool, that Disney cruises for birthdays and vacations will be the norm, and that they will pay for college. Expectant mothers are then guilted into believing they cannot now and never will provide anything close to that, so they give up their babies so they can "have a better life".

This is certainly not being GREEDY BIRTH MOTHERS.

Last edited by JustJulia; 09-28-2012 at 05:49 AM..
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:27 PM
 
9,104 posts, read 9,194,897 times
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Quote:
GREEDY BIRTH MOTHERS?

WHAT?

Sheena, you really have no idea what you are talking about!

The ones who are greedy are the pre-adoptive parents who convince a pregnant teen or young woman that she cannot possibly be a good mother to the baby she is pregnant with because she doesn't have enough resources to provide for "the" child. So the pre-adoptive couple tell of how much money they have, what kind of educatioon they can pay for, that they have a built-in pool, that Disney cruises for birthdays and vacations will be the norm, and that they will pay for college. Expectant mothers are then guilted into believing they cannot now and never will provide anything close to that, so they give up their babies so they can "have a better life".

This is certainly not being GREEDY BIRTH MOTHERS.
Let me tell you a story.

This goes back about 13 years ago, just before we adopted our daughter.

One day, I was talking to the director of the private adoption agency we were working with. He told me about a group of women who had relinquished more than one child for adoption. Apparently, they were well known to adoption agencies. Some would literally call up agencies and try to get them to compete against one another. His response was always the same. "We are allowed by law to pay reasonable and necessary living expense money up through the delivery of your child". They would than go to the next agency and so on. Sometimes, agency personnel would meet one another for business lunches and professional conventions. Than these stories would be told again.

The birth parents of both my children were much better people and I'm grateful for it.

Don't kid yourself though. People like this exist. There's even a term for it: serial relinquishment.

Last edited by JustJulia; 09-28-2012 at 05:49 AM..
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:56 PM
 
116 posts, read 85,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Let me tell you a story.

This goes back about 13 years ago, just before we adopted our daughter.

One day, I was talking to the director of the private adoption agency we were working with. He told me about a group of women who had relinquished more than one child for adoption. Apparently, they were well known to adoption agencies. Some would literally call up agencies and try to get them to compete against one another. His response was always the same. "We are allowed by law to pay reasonable and necessary living expense money up through the delivery of your child". They would than go to the next agency and so on. Sometimes, agency personnel would meet one another for business lunches and professional conventions. Than these stories would be told again.

The birth parents of both my children were much better people and I'm grateful for it.

Don't kid yourself though. People like this exist. There's even a term for it: serial relinquishment.
Serial relinquishment is alive and well in the Open Adoption Agency a few miles from my house. This adoption agency gladly accepts the second, third, or fourth baby born to the same "birth" mother as this mother provides them with a pay check as adoption facilitators and social workers and adoption lawyers. Oh, and, of course, the recipient adoptive parents.

But no, these people are not greedy. Not at all.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:26 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,570 posts, read 23,071,638 times
Reputation: 48455
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Let me tell you a story.

This goes back about 13 years ago, just before we adopted our daughter.

One day, I was talking to the director of the private adoption agency we were working with. He told me about a group of women who had relinquished more than one child for adoption. Apparently, they were well known to adoption agencies. Some would literally call up agencies and try to get them to compete against one another. His response was always the same. "We are allowed by law to pay reasonable and necessary living expense money up through the delivery of your child". They would than go to the next agency and so on. Sometimes, agency personnel would meet one another for business lunches and professional conventions. Than these stories would be told again.

The birth parents of both my children were much better people and I'm grateful for it.

Don't kid yourself though. People like this exist. There's even a term for it: serial relinquishment.
I have heard this term. There are 14 year olds who play this system.There are girls who manipulate desperate parents and live better than they ever did for nine months - then do it again.

They also get to call all of the shots.

They get to chose who will raise their kid and call for an open adoption!

I was able to site greedy adoption agencies and adoptive parents. BUT the birth mother? To some anything less than glorification is contempt.

They do not need to be punished but the idea that they should be treated like Queens - no.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:19 AM
 
16,487 posts, read 20,984,191 times
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"The adoption industry has issues, Overpaying themselves while calling themselves "not profits" particularly ticks me off."

Just because an adoption agency is non profit doesn't mean that the people that work there do not get paid. How do you know personally that these people are getting overpaid?

"There will always be people who only want white infants."

Yes there will be. Being as the majority of people that adopt in the US are Caucasian, most people will be trying to adopt a Caucasian baby.

"This creates greedy agencies and greedy birth mothers and pathetic families who will stoop to advertising themselves to get the attention of a teen age mom."

There are birthmothers that are greedy, and there are birthmother that are not. There are birthmoms that try to get as much help financially as they can, but there are also birthmothers that accept no help or just enough help to get by.

Exactly what is wrong with a couple that wants an independent adoption in the, just as you do, that makes up a profile of themselves to hopefully be seen by birthmothers in the hopes of being chosen? (A profile includes photos of the couple/family, pets if any, home where they live, and vacations, plus something written up about their reasons for wanting to adopt, about their job/jobs/ hobbies, other children if they have any, pets, the state and area they live in etc.)

"There are 14 year olds who play this system.There are girls who manipulate desperate parents and live better than they ever did for nine months - then do it again."

Yes, there are birthmothers that try to get as much money as they can, but many do not. There are also adoptive parents that lie about their lives, who tell the birthmothers that they will do an open adoption and then cut off all ties once the adoption is finalized. I have even heard of adoptive parents that moved out of state so the birthmom would not find them and be involved. Yes, there are birthmoms that give up babies from a later pregnancy. The birthmom of my daughter placed a baby again just a couple of years ago. She got birthmother expenses, as her state allowed, but she gave them a BABY. As in anything, there are extremes, but I think most people fall somewhere in the middle.

"They also get to call all of the shots."

Of course they call the shots, they are the birthmother! They are giving you their baby. They are the ones that are trying to figure out who would be best to raise their child, they should be the one to call the shots. They will live with the pain of that the rest of their lives.

"They get to chose who will raise their kid and call for an open adoption!"

Yes, again they do call the shots, it is their baby. It is up to them the level of openess that they want. I have seen birthmothers who wanted to leave everything behind them and wanted completely closed adoptions, and then some that want REALLY open adoptions with visits even, and everything in-between. We have an open adoption with our daughter's birthmom. We talk on the phone now and then, text now and then, and I send photos.

"They do not need to be punished but the idea that they should be treated like Queens - no."

Every state has laws as to what level of birthmother expenses are allowed. There are even states that do not allow birthmother expenses to be paid. There are state that do not have a ceiling on the amount, and again, anything in between. There are rich couples that give their birthmothers a lot, and there are adoptive couples that pay just what is needed to get her through the month, and their are adoptive couples that do not pay a cent for bmom expenses. The bottom line in all of this is that this woman is going to give you her baby, and the way I look at it is that is the ultimate gift. After having 3 children myself and losing 4 babies, I cannot imagine the pain of carrying a baby for 10 mos. and then handing it over to a couple and going home with empty arms.

I'll tell you what burns my butt. There are adoptive couples that will purposely adopt an African American baby/child or adopt an older child/children internationally and immediately apply for Social Security because they are considerd "special needs". In many states a perfectly health AA newborn or child is automatically considered special needs just because of their color. On the same hand are the many many adoptive couples that adopt from the foster care system and do the same thing. I knew a lady that lived in Texas. Texas is one of the states that pays the highest amount per month per child than any other state. I am not kidding you when I say they had over 20 children, and only 1 was biological. They always adopted sibling groups, one time 5 at a time. They were collecting a fortune. They just had the older kids take care of the younger ones, and the kids did the laundry and cooked and everything. For all I know she is still adopting. No one would take a sibling group of 5, so the state was more than happy to give them the children, despite how many children they already had.

All I am trying to say here is that there are birthmoms that take advantage of their pregnancy, and there are ones that do not. There are adoptive parents that take advantage of the system as well, and there's ones that do not.

It took us over 5 years to adopt. We went through scams and a failed adoptions and it was very difficult. We did not have anyone give us one penny to help us adopt. We were not rich people whatsoever.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:58 AM
 
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I'm bemused by the disdain for birth mothers. It seems to me to be much the same as it was 50+ years ago, only now we don't say that it is because they are unwed - now, it is just that a woman who finds herself in a position with no marketable skills, no family support and no bootstraps to pull herself up with is Other. Marginalized, to be looked down on.

She did it twice, or three times? She handed over her babies to those who could give them a fair shot more than once, and expected her living expenses to be paid during pregnancy? How greedy. And we can certainly dismiss their feelings later on in life, since they 'made a choice.' Lets just ignore that we couldn't build the family we want without women in these situations.

To respond to the original topic: I live in a somewhat insular neighborhood in a large city, where many people know each other and have lived here for a long time. I could probably get a grassroots fundraising effort started fairly easily, with only the donation of my time. There are a lot of 50/50s, beef and beer, etc type fundraising efforts at the local bars and taverns. And although a decade ago I was the one who couldn't raise a child, I've worked hard and my circumstances are vastly different now- we are entertaining the notion of adopting an "older" child in a few years.
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