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Old 09-15-2012, 01:41 PM
 
116 posts, read 85,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I know people didn't like this answer but I actually agree with it. I was adopted at a young age and knew, from the time I was adopted that I was. It was no secret, I knew; I was young, but old enough to know.

When I did finally get my hands on my birth certificate, it showed the location, the time, the date..but had my adopted parents name in there with my birth parents ages.

I found that when I was about 14 years old or so. It did just what the poster said...I knew it wasn't true and honestly, I was upset that it wasn't true. Yes, my adopted parents are my adopted parents but my BIRTH certificate should have reflected who created me. That is what I wanted. I still want that.

Maybe that makes no sense to anyone else, it doesn't matter. It DID affect me to see the lie on my birth certificate.
Thank you for responding.

This is why we need to change the laws - to document birth and adoption as vital statistics truthfully.
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:03 PM
 
116 posts, read 85,122 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I know people didn't like this answer but I actually agree with it. I was adopted at a young age and knew, from the time I was adopted that I was. It was no secret, I knew; I was young, but old enough to know.

When I did finally get my hands on my birth certificate, it showed the location, the time, the date..but had my adopted parents name in there with my birth parents ages.

I found that when I was about 14 years old or so. It did just what the poster said...I knew it wasn't true and honestly, I was upset that it wasn't true. Yes, my adopted parents are my adopted parents but my BIRTH certificate should have reflected who created me. That is what I wanted. I still want that.

Maybe that makes no sense to anyone else, it doesn't matter. It DID affect me to see the lie on my birth certificate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Thank you NoKudzu, actually you may speak for me any time. I am weary, tired of this whole ordeal.
In the past few days I have been brought to tears, I have had anxiety attacks and flahsbacks to the days of infertility. I thought I was over that, but I guess I am not.This has been an ordeal.
I appreciate you, and others who have comented, Our experiences were very similar, and I thank you for sharing your story.

The information that my daughter has is the same. There is little question as to etnicity except if one of her grand fathers or great greatgrandfathers was an American GI. I don't know names I know a province, That is it. I have pictures of her Onehundreth Day celebration in my living room and pictures of us in hamboks at Culture Day in second grade.She is radient and happy.

I think that this is more of a longing of American adoptees than international adoptees.I know many adopted from Asia and Eastern Europe and they do not have these feelings,

Anyway, I feel as thoughs I have been raked over the coals. And for what, Did you learn anything frm all of this? I only learned that IA is the way to go for me. And I know first hand about a faction of people whose zealotry frightens me. I know I will never adopt domestically now ever.

And I look forward to my impending adoption.
"I think that this is more of a longing of American adoptees than international adoptees.I know many adopted from Asia and Eastern Europe and they do not have these feelings"

Boy are you wrong: Transracialeyes

"And I know first hand about a faction of people whose zealotry frightens me. I know I will never adopt domestically now ever."

Again, your words are attacking adoptees and natural parents who are objecting to the industry of adoption as a money-making business. Many children are trafficked from poor countries into wealthy countries.

If our words frighten you, then you surely must be a very insecure person. We are not attacking you as a person. It is the way the business of adoption is run. If there were to be a change, say, to provide homes for children without making them lose their homeland, their family, their language, their culture, but the way adoption is done now is asking for a child to give up so much. And, you are expecting that the mothers and fathers of these children to feel no loss over the children taken for adoption into America or other wealthy countries.
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:15 PM
 
116 posts, read 85,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susankate View Post
And not a single one of us on this thread has ever doubted that.

I second that!

For some reason, it is assumed that when an adoptee wants to have access to the true birth certificate, or wants to search, or wants to have a reunion, or wants to have a long-term relationship with natural parents, that that means there is no love between adoptee and adoptive parents.

For the majority, yes, there is love.

For many, no there is not.

I know of many adoptees who were rapred by peodophile adoptive fathers and brothers and uncles.

These adoptees do not feel love to those adoptive fathers or brothers or uncles and it is obvious that they did not feel love toward the adoptee.
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:34 PM
 
116 posts, read 85,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susankate View Post
And not a single one of us on this thread has ever doubted that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
Yes, thank you for clarifying Susankate. I would never tell any adoptee how to refer to either family.

I am not sure if I psoted this here or not, so forgive me if this is repetitious. In my reunion, I had an on-again-off-again father-daughter-love relationship with my natural father. And my adoptive parents. While my two sets of parents and I visited each other and built up relationships, other adoptive relatives judged me behind my back.

When my adoptive father died of brain cancer when I was 24, as I was getting out of the car to his funeral prayers before burial, an adoptive cousin came up to me in the parking lot. She said, "Your other cousins and I do not want you here. You OPENLY declare you have two fathers. Therefore, you must not love this one."

This is the kind of harassment I have had to endure by ignorant extended adoptive relatives who have never been educated in adoption and the psychology of adoption.

This same ignorant woman shared the last moments of my mother's death with me and my children and other relatives. I felt like punching her in her gut. How nasty to attackk me for accepting my natural father back into my life! And for her to judge him and to judge me, all because of her pre-conceived notions that adoptees should never know their natural blood kin.

I wanted to be alone with my mother as she died.

As it was evident that the moments were drawing near, the priest came in and gave last rights. Afterward, this cousin cried. She approached me and said, "I know we've had our bad moments, but I need to hug you". So we hugged. I accepted her act of kindness and love. And, months later, gave her my mother's walker as she herself needed it.

I will never get over the pain of her words: "You OPENLY declare you have two fathers ...therefore you must not love this father."

OPENLY --- as if this was some kind of forbidden sexual liason. Or perhaps how some people complain about HOMOSEXUALS as OPENLY GAY.

This is outrageously ignorant behavior.

I loved my natural father and called him "Dad".

I loved my adoptive father and called him "Dad".

I loved my adoptive mother and called her "Mom".

I loved my step mother and called her "Mom".

I loved my natural mother and go to her grave and call her "Mom".
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Old 09-15-2012, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,748 posts, read 3,318,058 times
Reputation: 6467
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykee View Post
"I think that this is more of a longing of American adoptees than international adoptees.I know many adopted from Asia and Eastern Europe and they do not have these feelings"

Boy are you wrong: Transracialeyes

"And I know first hand about a faction of people whose zealotry frightens me. I know I will never adopt domestically now ever."

Again, your words are attacking adoptees and natural parents who are objecting to the industry of adoption as a money-making business. Many children are trafficked from poor countries into wealthy countries.

If our words frighten you, then you surely must be a very insecure person. We are not attacking you as a person. It is the way the business of adoption is run. If there were to be a change, say, to provide homes for children without making them lose their homeland, their family, their language, their culture, but the way adoption is done now is asking for a child to give up so much. And, you are expecting that the mothers and fathers of these children to feel no loss over the children taken for adoption into America or other wealthy countries.
The International adoption business is to help both the children and country. The children are given up for adoption BECAUSE their birth parents couldn't or want to take care of them. The fees for adoption aren't any more than hospital fees for a "natural" birth, so how are the countries getting rich over that.
I guess then the hospitals and doctors are getting rich here too. As what was stated in other posts, these children from other countries are doomed if they are not adopted, so don't feel sorry for the parents that gave up these children. Feel sorry for the children and be happy that there are people wanting to adopt those children.
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Old 09-15-2012, 04:01 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,576 posts, read 23,094,067 times
Reputation: 48516
Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
The International adoption business is to help both the children and country. The children are given up for adoption BECAUSE their birth parents couldn't or want to take care of them. The fees for adoption aren't any more than hospital fees for a "natural" birth, so how are the countries getting rich over that.
I guess then the hospitals and doctors are getting rich here too. As what was stated in other posts, these children from other countries are doomed if they are not adopted, so don't feel sorry for the parents that gave up these children. Feel sorry for the children and be happy that there are people wanting to adopt those children.
Beautifully stated.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:17 PM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,853,708 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
The International adoption business is to help both the children and country. The children are given up for adoption BECAUSE their birth parents couldn't or want to take care of them. The fees for adoption aren't any more than hospital fees for a "natural" birth, so how are the countries getting rich over that.
I guess then the hospitals and doctors are getting rich here too. As what was stated in other posts, these children from other countries are doomed if they are not adopted, so don't feel sorry for the parents that gave up these children. Feel sorry for the children and be happy that there are people wanting to adopt those children.

First of all, that is a rather simplistic view of international adoption.

If I were adopting internationally, I would want to look at ALL sides just so I had a deeper insight into what CAN go wrong and on how to adopt ethically.

Thus I would read all the following:

Parents for Ethical Adoption Reform (PEAR)

http://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/...ingtonPost.pdf

A look at the families affected by corrupt international adoptions. - Slate Magazine

http://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/...eLieWeLove.pdf

Anatomy of an Adoption Crisis - By E.J. GRAFF | Foreign Policy

http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewconte...ntext=expresso

http://www.reformtalk.net/wp-content...s-Package1.pdf

http://iss-usa.org/uploads/file/Grey...es%20study.pdf

I would then be able to know what to watch our for and adopt in the most ethical manner and know that I could hold my head up high when talking to my child about their adoption.

Btw a lot of the above documents were written by adoptive parents so it would be wrong to call them anti-adoption. They are pro-adoption reform.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,748 posts, read 3,318,058 times
Reputation: 6467
Quote:
Originally Posted by susankate View Post
First of all, that is a rather simplistic view of international adoption.

If I were adopting internationally, I would want to look at ALL sides just so I had a deeper insight into what CAN go wrong and on how to adopt ethically.

Thus I would read all the following:

Parents for Ethical Adoption Reform (PEAR)

http://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/...ingtonPost.pdf

A look at the families affected by corrupt international adoptions. - Slate Magazine

http://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/...eLieWeLove.pdf

Anatomy of an Adoption Crisis - By E.J. GRAFF | Foreign Policy

http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewconte...ntext=expresso

http://www.reformtalk.net/wp-content...s-Package1.pdf

http://iss-usa.org/uploads/file/Grey...es%20study.pdf

I would then be able to know what to watch our for and adopt in the most ethical manner and know that I could hold my head up high when talking to my child about their adoption.

Btw a lot of the above documents were written by adoptive parents so it would be wrong to call them anti-adoption. They are pro-adoption reform.
We know from your posts, that you would never adopt internationally. As far as adopting internationally, my wife and I have been to several countries and have seen first hand orphanages and could tell that the children are well taken care of. The parents either could not take care of the children or the country found the parents to be unfit parents. In the states children are taken away all the time and put into foster care, but the agencies main purpose is to reunite the parents and child, however egregious the act was that got the child taken away in the first place. This is why CPS is under so much scrutiny.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:14 PM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,853,708 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
We know from your posts, that you would never adopt internationally. As far as adopting internationally, my wife and I have been to several countries and have seen first hand orphanages and could tell that the children are well taken care of. The parents either could not take care of the children or the country found the parents to be unfit parents. In the states children are taken away all the time and put into foster care, but the agencies main purpose is to reunite the parents and child, however egregious the act was that got the child taken away in the first place. This is why CPS is under so much scrutiny.
I also wouldn't adopt from domestic infant adoption in the US. However, I would consider fostering and, if the child wanted to then be adopted, perhaps do so.

Most countries have similar problems with their child welfare organisations - there are many questions that need asking.

The following website raises some interesting points whether you agree with all the points or not:

National Coalition for Child Protection Reform

http://www.nccpr.org/reports/twelveways
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:42 PM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,585,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Ok, I've had time to go back and read where this misunderstanding started. As an adoptee myself, I have ONE set of parents.

Yes, I wish that the bios names would have been put on my birth certificate because regardless of who the parents actually are, to me it is a lie to have their names there. I don't need an adoption certificate to make me feel better, I just want their actual names there. (I know their names, by the way.) I can't possibly explain to anyone why this is important to me, it just is, to me. Others may not care.

But, those are NOT my parents. If I have to give them a title, I call her my biological mother...although I do not view her as my mother. She birthed me. And I certainly do not call him, "father", biological or not. To me, he is "sperm donor". He wasn't present at the birth, couldn't be bothered, he didn't come home after work and left us freezing because he didn't want to pay for the heat that he didn't use while he wasn't there, he didn't want to give her any money to feed us if we were hungry, on and on, many other things as well that mean he will NEVER earn the right to be called "father" in any way, shape or form. He is NOT my "father". He is a sperm donor. That's how he acted, that is his title.

For her, I can be a little more lenient and call her bio mother but I do not call her mother when I talk to her. I call her by her first name. Interestingly, when I was younger, my PARENTS told me that when I did talk about the bio mother and sperm donor, I called them by their first names...so even from when I was young I didn't call them "mom" and "dad". Hell, if I wasn't in a hospital, I was in a foster home half the time. In my first four years of life, I probably lived with them for two. The damage he did in those two years, however spread out they were, means he is never, ever going to be referred to as a parent. She did nothing to stop that, she doesn't get the title either.

That is my choice to make. It should not be shoved down my throat that I have "two sets of parents" because I do not. Just as we want to allow adoptees to determine if their bio family plays a role in their lives, we also need to allow that in some cases, they DON'T play a role in their lives.

I can talk to the bio mother. I will NOT talk to sperm donor. He doesn't deserve to get to know me. I have NO interest in knowing him any further than who his parents were so that I can find out MY heritage. Not because of him, but because of ME.

But even though I can talk to bio mother, (which I am calling her this here, only because I'm not giving out her name...which is what I call her), it does not mean she gets to be titled as my parent. It does not mean she has a huge role in my life. I talk to her. She talks to me more than I talk to her. (Messages)

Neither of them are my parents. If I'm going to call any one a parent, it would be the two who adopted me. Nobody else gets that title.

If you want to call your bio parents that, that's your right...but don't expect that all adoptees feel that way...because we don't.
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