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Old 09-16-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,783 posts, read 16,859,428 times
Reputation: 26318

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
Okay, we are getting closer but you are still misunderstanding me. If you don't mind sticking with me on this one I will try to clarify further:

No one, not me, not Kay, not anyone is saying that any adoptee should refer to their family any way other than how THEY choose.

When I ask do you see the problem in referring to other adoptee's families in general terms as sperm/egg donors, non family, etc, I mean people coming to public spaces & discussing "birthfamilies" in GENERAL. Or the importance of biology in general.

You see how this is different from an adoptee saying, "Yes, adoptees are born from another family & raised by another, but I personally do not consider my biological family family." And then someone else saying, "Adoptees have one family, the one who raised them." Or "Genetics are nothing, blood/ancestry is not important," or "birthfathers are nothing but sperm donors," or things of the like?

Because that is the type of demeaning dialogue we object to, not adoptees personally identifying family, but people painting adoptees family in a general, negative way.
I would say that they just don't know, are ignorant because they haven't been on either side of the adoption or that they are using those words to describe people.

As I said, on here, I will call her "bio mom" or call them "bio parents" just so people know who I am talking about but I do NOT consider her a mom to me at all, nor do I consider them parents, at all.

In the end, each adoptee calls those people what they want to call them. Each one is different. It's impossible for someone to know what each adoptee is going to call or want to call those people. I think it's more used as a general term than someone saying, "This is all they are to you". (I mean here, I can't vouch for incidents in real life that some have gone through...and in those cases, like Kay's, that was nothing but massive, flaming disrespect from her family members...which, they would have been disrespectful anyway but latched on to this issue as their "excuse".)
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:04 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,906 posts, read 36,369,891 times
Reputation: 42509
Hi everybody. We have several active threads right now, which are presumably about different topics, yet all of them keep dissolving into the same arguments, personal attacks, and hijacking. I am trying to keep each thread on topic. The thread title is the topic. This thread is about the bias and hostility that adoptees may face. This thread is not about adoptive parents and their positive experiences. There is a different thread for that. I am sorry that I had to delete some replies to posts that were removed, but the thread has to stay coherent. I can restore posts and move them to other threads if appropriate, so please DM me if you would like a post that was deleted for being off topic moved to a thread where it will be on topic.

Thanks, Julia
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:34 PM
 
116 posts, read 85,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
That's a ton of books you listed. Do you know if any of them come in audio or braille?
No, I don't know. Many of these are old books that can possibly be found on Amazon or American Adoption Congress book lists, or even by the authors themselves.

I do beleive many of these books are self published and as such, the formats for audio or braille are not available in self published books.

But you can look these up on Google and find out.

This list I gave is from my own book shelf. I rached up and grabbed books and typed in the titles and authors.

It seems that self-published book publishers ought to have these other altenate forms available to reach a wider audiance, but they don't.

Some books may have been published by main stream publishers who may have audio and braille. I'm sorry I don't know.

And there are even more books out there that I don't have!
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:48 PM
 
116 posts, read 85,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
That's really sad. That just breaks my heart to hear. Obviously I can understand why they wouldn't love or feel connected to their adoptive parent in that case.
This is one of the reasons why I ask people to read about adoption psychology. Most of what is written is about the life development of normal adoptions, however, we are beginning to hear from such adoptees who have lived the situations I mentioned of rape by adoptive male relatives.

If you think about this carefully, the rational goes like this: peodophile adoptive father thinks "she's not really my daughter so this is not really incest". But he does not think that in the child's eyes, the child sees the grown man as her father, and then he molests her or rapes her. And some girls get pregnant. The adopted daughter then feels betrayed by her father, which he is her father, not only by legal decree, but by love of her to him as a daughter. But then she has to face the fact that he never saw her as his daughter.

That's why it is important to read about the deeper issues. It is all very complicated, far more than this thread can talk about.

So, while this may not seem to fit the topic of this thread, it does have to do with HOW an adoptive father who is a peodophile thinks. He may very well say to his daughter, "Hey, I am not really your father, your real father gaver you away and he doesn't want you" This, then, further victimizes the child and warps her view of fatherhood, and childhood. "He is my father, but then says he isn't, and then he does this..."

Thankfully, this is not the norm.

Last edited by kaykee; 09-16-2012 at 10:49 PM.. Reason: to remove a quote that is there accidentally
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:06 PM
 
116 posts, read 85,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I agree with this simply because I believe biology is important...to ME. I wanted to know what I looked like, where I came from, what was my heritage, any health issues I should know about, etc.

But we must also accept that some people really do NOT feel the need to know these things and that is ok. Just as we wish to be accepted and respected for what we call our biological parents, we must also accept and respect that not all adoptees have a desire to know anything about their birth parents. That is just fact, not all of them do. That is ok because that is up to the adopted child, not you, not me, not anyone else.
Again, I am not talking about feelings. How a person feels about NOT wanting to know has no bearing on the fact that a doctor may need to know the real facts of maternal and paternal lineage to trace a medical condition or may need to ask if any siblings have the conditon or may need to ask if any aunts, uncles or cousins have the condition. Knowing these facts can mean life or death decisions in an adoptee's health care.

And I am not talking about "an adopted child". I am an adult of 56 years and have to deal with these questions from my doctors.

Last edited by JustJulia; 09-18-2012 at 04:09 PM.. Reason: moved part of post to a new thread
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:18 AM
 
1,014 posts, read 987,856 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I would say that they just don't know, are ignorant because they haven't been on either side of the adoption or that they are using those words to describe people.

As I said, on here, I will call her "bio mom" or call them "bio parents" just so people know who I am talking about but I do NOT consider her a mom to me at all, nor do I consider them parents, at all.

In the end, each adoptee calls those people what they want to call them. Each one is different. It's impossible for someone to know what each adoptee is going to call or want to call those people. I think it's more used as a general term than someone saying, "This is all they are to you". (I mean here, I can't vouch for incidents in real life that some have gone through...and in those cases, like Kay's, that was nothing but massive, flaming disrespect from her family members...which, they would have been disrespectful anyway but latched on to this issue as their "excuse".)
Yes, those people are ignorant... or they are personally involved in some way & view those people as lesser than themselves & so they show their prejudice when referring to our biological families in a general way. I hope you understand that this was the context in which Kay & I were talking about -- that it is wrong to refer to adoptees family as any way other than their family (unless speaking to an individual adoptee who has explicitly requested their personal family be addressed in whatever other way).

For example, your parents are free to refer to your biological family whatever way you ask them to, but if they are discussing biological families in general in a public space they should refer to these general people as families. We as a society should withhold from judging/diminishing/demeaning an entire group of people made up of human beings who many are deserving of respect, yes?

(Note: not saying your parents wouldn't be respectful in this scenario, just using it as an example).

The problem is that people here have talked about biology, ancestry, culture, countries, & families in GENERAL, at times in straight up hateful, or demeaning ways. This deserves to be called out for what it is: prejudice & yes ignorance as you stated.

If YOU do not personally feel that way, or your adopted child, that is fine. There is nothing wrong with that, but you should still be mindful not to demean the many people who do find those things very important & central to the core of who they are.
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