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Old 09-13-2012, 08:10 AM
 
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Wow, Kaykee... thank you for posting all of those. It is heartbreaking, yet important to see that this is how adoptees are often treated later in life. I have had many unfortunate meetings with bias social workers, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
So, as a mom I can certainly empathize with your plight.
Sheena, I'm so sorry for the treatment of your daughter. But I do not see how you empathize with my plight when you also say things like this:

Quote:
It seems to me, that people who refer to them selves as "adult adoptees" do have problems. And the etiology of these problems in not always adoption. Some families have problems, and all problems, big or small are amplified by the angst of adolescence.

People who have these problems tend to self identify as "adult adoptees" and a bad experience does not make one an expert in the subject.

Those who are well adjusted and happy in life to not go around calling them self "adult adoptees" as though they are adult children of alcoholics or survivors of the holocaust.

What do they call themselves? They call them selves people.
How many adoptees have been dismissed & belittled for having "bad experiences" by people who know nothing about them?

& how many adoptees have been considered problems for wanting access to our original birth certificates, just as every other citizen has access to? I personally am still barred access to my records in spite of being reunited with both my father & mother.

Last edited by thethreefoldme; 09-13-2012 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:17 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,421,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
Wow, Kaykee... thank you for posting all of those. It is heartbreaking, yet important to see that this is how adoptees are often treated later in life. I have had many unfortunate meetings with bias social workers, as well.



Sheena, I'm so sorry for the treatment of your daughter. But I do not see how you empathize with my plight when you add to the hostile environment by saying things like this:

How many adoptees have been dismissed & belittled for having "bad experiences" by people who know nothing about them?

Also, how many adoptees have been accused of wanting children to die in orphanages, when that couldn't be farther from the truth? How many adoptees have been accused of wanting abortion rates to rise, even though adoption does nothing to lessen abortion rates?

& how many adoptees have been considered problems for wanting access to our original birth certificates, just as every other citizen has access to?
I don't see how Sheena said any of that. I agree with both what you and Sheena posted. Admitting adult adoptees have issues is not the same as dimssming their bad experiences or accusing them of wanting orphans to die and wanting abortion rates to rise. Adult adoptees have issues, yes, because all adults have issues. Everyone has issues. Many adult adoptees have issues related to adoption, in the same way many adults of any stigmatized group often grow up to have issues around their group membership precisely because society stigmatizes them.

Personally, I've never heard of adoptees being barred from their birth certificates. I have mine in the original Russian and translated into English. I have my adoption certificate in Russian and English too. I have all the medical documentation that the orphanage gave my parents and everything, but they don't mean much to me personally cause most of it is completely inconsistent and was made up anyway. Is this a U.S. adoption thing? Or do some countries bar that information?
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:20 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,901 posts, read 42,569,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Oops, sorry Julia, I just came across your post about the copyright issue. Want me to delete the reformatted posts?
No, I'll leave them. I usually don't talk about moderating on the forum (first rule of moderating ... we don't talk about moderating!), but kaykee is new. I am trying to avoid appearing like I am unilaterally squelching what she has to say.

City-Data can't be used to promote or drum up readership to a website, so we don't usually allow repeated links to the same blog (sometimes not at all, depending what the topic/site is). Therefore, I can't ask her to keep posting and linking to that site.

I only have two people in my family who were adopted, a first cousin who was adopted by her stepfather after he married her mother, and a more distant cousin (grandmother's niece's son - I am terrible with remembering the "second cousin once removed" rules) who was a homeless orphan adopted from Brazil. I am not close to the latter branch of the family so I don't have anything to contribute to the topic, other than that thoughtless people can say the rudest, meanest things. I'm sorry for what the OP has gone through.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I don't see how Sheena said any of that. I agree with both what you and Sheena posted. Admitting adult adoptees have issues is not the same as dimssming their bad experiences or accusing them of wanting orphans to die and wanting abortion rates to rise. Adult adoptees have issues, yes, because [i]all adults have issues. And many adult adoptees have issues related to adoption, in the same way many adult of any stigmatized group often grow up to have issues around it precisely because society stigmatizes them.
It was said in the other threads, I copy & pasted her comment so you can see she obviously did say that. The other comments were all open-ended questions, not saying Sheena said those things. I have been accused a multitude of times of wanting orphans to die because I support adoption reform. I have also been accused of wanting abortion rates to rise. I was asking for others to share their experiences with these sort of accusations as well (if they would like).

Last edited by thethreefoldme; 09-13-2012 at 08:39 AM..
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:31 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,421,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
It was said in the other threads, I copy & pasted her comment so you can see she obviously did say that. The other comments were all open-ended questions, not saying Sheena said those things. I have been accused a multitude of times of wanting orphans to die because I support adoption reform. I have also been accused of wanting abortion rates to rise. I was asking for others to share their experiences with these sort of accusations as well (if they would like).
I've been accused of being a baby murderer because I support a woman's choice.

I've been accused of being obsessed with the past and told so many times to get over the past, get over the past, etc. etc.

Most people really don't get just how bad it is in the orphanage. So many people, 5 minutes after meeting me, when they find out I'm adopted ask me: "Do you remember what it was like in the orphanage?"

Seriously what do these people expect me to answer? "Oh yes, we woke up to the smell of cinnamon tea and the beautiful sunlight shining on our duck-feather pillows every morning, as the maids tended to the fire to keep us warm. After our breakfast of fluffy blueberry pancakes, we began our day with our private tutors."

Because they have the nerve to ask such a personal question, I tell them the truth. "Yes, I remember being neglected and abused in the orphanage because I still get flashbacks of it to this day." Then, hopefully at some time during the awkward silence that ensues, they realize why that's such an insensitive question to ask an adopted person.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:34 AM
 
1,014 posts, read 1,187,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I've been accused of being a baby murderer because I support a woman's choice.

I've been accused of being obsessed with the past and told so many times to get over the past, get over the past, etc. etc.

Most people really don't get just how bad it is in the orphanage. So many people, 5 minutes after meeting me, when they find out I'm adopted ask me: "Do you remember what it was like in the orphanage?"

Seriously what do these people expect me to answer? "Oh yes, we woke up to the smell of cinnamon tea and the beautiful sunlight shining on our duck-feather pillows every morning, as the tended to the fire to keep us warm. After our breakfast of fluffy blueberry pancakes, we began our day with our private tutors."
Me too... only about foster-care instead of an orphanage. Also, I have heard that I should be grateful I was not aborted -- even though what they don't realize is in my situation (& many others) that was never an option. If I was not adopted I would never have been aborted, my family would have raised me.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:39 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,421,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
Me too... only about foster-care instead of an orphanage. Also, I have heard that I should be grateful I was not aborted -- even though what they don't realize is in my situation (& many others) that was never an option. If I was not adopted I would never have been aborted, my family would have raised me.
I get that a lot too which is so obnoxious because of the story behind it, which I can't even go into on the public forms, but feel free to DM me about it.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:46 AM
 
1,880 posts, read 2,298,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I don't see how Sheena said any of that. I agree with both what you and Sheena posted. Admitting adult adoptees have issues is not the same as dimssming their bad experiences or accusing them of wanting orphans to die and wanting abortion rates to rise. Adult adoptees have issues, yes, because all adults have issues. Everyone has issues. Many adult adoptees have issues related to adoption, in the same way many adults of any stigmatized group often grow up to have issues around their group membership precisely because society stigmatizes them.

Personally, I've never heard of adoptees being barred from their birth certificates. I have mine in the original Russian and translated into English. I have my adoption certificate in Russian and English too. I have all the medical documentation that the orphanage gave my parents and everything, but they don't mean much to me personally cause most of it is completely inconsistent and was made up anyway. Is this a U.S. adoption thing? Or do some countries bar that information?
Nimchimpsky - all but 9 US states have sealed records which means that the vast majority of US adoptees have no access to their original birth certificates. In some cases, a person can get them if it is a case of medical emergency or they have a genetic disease that it may be important for the other party to know (I know a couple of adoptees who were able to have their records unsealed for this reason).

Kansas and Alaska have never sealed their records but the majority of states sealed them in the 50s to "protect" adoptive parents from supposed interference by birthparents.

With today's adoptions, it is recommended that the APs get a copy of the OBC before finalisation because otherwise they and their child may never be able to access it again.

In Australia and NZ, our records in most states have been open since the mid 80s (except Queensland which was sealed until last year). Most adoptees I know are very mindful and respectful of both their bparents and aparents when going about reunion and, out here, when you get your OBC, you get counselling/info about expectations so that things will run smoother. I thought long and hard before contacting bfamily. My amom is fine about my meeting bfamily although I am also very respectful of her feelings as well.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:17 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,421,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susankate View Post
Nimchimpsky - all but 9 US states have sealed records which means that the vast majority of US adoptees have no access to their original birth certificates. In some cases, a person can get them if it is a case of medical emergency or they have a genetic disease that it may be important for the other party to know (I know a couple of adoptees who were able to have their records unsealed for this reason).

Kansas and Alaska have never sealed their records but the majority of states sealed them in the 50s to "protect" adoptive parents from supposed interference by birthparents.

With today's adoptions, it is recommended that the APs get a copy of the OBC before finalisation because otherwise they and their child may never be able to access it again.

In Australia and NZ, our records in most states have been open since the mid 80s (except Queensland which was sealed until last year). Most adoptees I know are very mindful and respectful of both their bparents and aparents when going about reunion and, out here, when you get your OBC, you get counselling/info about expectations so that things will run smoother. I thought long and hard before contacting bfamily. My amom is fine about my meeting bfamily although I am also very respectful of her feelings as well.
Wow, thanks for letting me know. I guess I lucked out because of where I live.

I don't understand why having a birth certificate would translate to the birth family having any kind of rights. Why can't an adoptive family be allowed to see the birth certificate without giving up any parental rights to the birth parents?

Are you talking about domestic adoption or international adoption, or are the laws the same for both?
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:55 AM
 
1,880 posts, read 2,298,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Wow, thanks for letting me know. I guess I lucked out because of where I live.

I don't understand why having a birth certificate would translate to the birth family having any kind of rights. Why can't an adoptive family be allowed to see the birth certificate without giving up any parental rights to the birth parents?

Are you talking about domestic adoption or international adoption, or are the laws the same for both?

Here is a site that you might want to read re adoption in the US:

Adoption History: Confidentiality and Sealed Records

and an index:

Adoption History::Timeline of Adoption History
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