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I just wish people would stop projecting their anger about their own personal situation onto everyone. If you had a bad experience with adoption doesn't mean that all adoption, ever, in the history of humankind, stinks. Just because you didn't like your experience with adoption doesn't mean that adoption is the same as human trafficking, or that it's inherently unethical. Anything can be done in an ethical or unethical way. Just because you don't have your birth certificate doesn't mean that all people who do have the ticket to the truth. Adoption can be positive or negative. Most of the time it's both. Yes, those things can happen, and they do sometimes. But adoption also has its positives. It does give another option to mothers who aren't emotionally or financially in a place to raise a child. It gives many children a new home. It allows people to love unconditionally, regardless of blood relation. It allows people to make families in another way. Sometimes adoption turns out well, sometimes it doesn't, most of the time it's a mixed bag. Like most things in life, it has its upsides and downsides. I wish the people who only have negative things to say about adoption had the emotional maturity to be able to admit that they are upset cause of their own experience, and to own their own anger instead of attacking others or blaming it on all adoption ever. There are people out there who are grateful, who did have a better experience. Work to change the bad parts, but don't knock the whole system. There's nothing wrong with appreciating the good parts while calling out the bad parts too. It doesn't have to be all black and white, all good or bad.
Nim, if I could rep you for your post above, I would do so. Well-stated, clear, thoughtful and succinct.
Tiffjoy, I also would like to see clarification of what is considered rudeness vs, what is honest, directly stated, strongly held personal opinion. I expect most here can agree that personally insulting and disrespectful comments fall into the first category, along with misquoting others and mockery, while avoiding answering others' questions and instead, derailing the course of the discussion. My own feeling is that it should be possible to have an energetic discussion of various points of view without resorting to insults directed at others whose opinions differ.
I try to avoid what I consider rudeness, though I've certainly been direct in stating my own opinions and in questioning those of others or asking others to clarify.
But I am not a moderator, and do not speak for them. Just my own thoughts and perceptions.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 10-09-2012 at 11:54 AM..
I took the "heroes" comment as an well-intentioned attempt to compliment adoptive parents and advocates for special needs adoption - I do not consider myself a "hero" by any means, or think that others become heroes by adopting.
As for the "gratitude" comment, I think this may reflect a commonly held perception with which I do not personally agree. Perhaps hoping that an adoptee now in a loving and stable home but from a traumatic background will feel relief and be thankful that their circumstances have improved might be more precise, but this does not account for the same individual's sadness that he or she underwent such trauma and loss initially, regardless of the "happy" ending (which of course isn't truly an ending...).
I think as people learn more about the complexities of adoption, their thoughts and beliefs- and probably, their comments here- will reflect their growing knowledge of the depth and significance of the various issues involved. Meanwhile, it might be well to courteously provide more information about those complex issues rather than to condemn others for comments which reflect their current level of knowledge and resulting thoughts and feelings.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 10-09-2012 at 11:55 AM..
I also was giving the details of an adoption - some adoptees are so ANTI-adoption it clouds their minds to the facts that adoption is sometimes NECESSARY.
I was also answering a question that was put forth in the other person's post "what would one of 4 remaining children not relinquished to adoption say?" - not an exact quote - Since I am one of the 4 remaining children - I answered it. I was defending the honor of my mother, who's birthday was Oct. 4, the date that ridiculous question was put out.
I also was giving the details of an adoption - some adoptees are so ANTI-adoption it clouds their minds to the facts that adoption is sometimes NECESSARY.
I was also answering a question that was put forth in the other person's post "what would one of 4 remaining children not relinquished to adoption say?" - not an exact quote - Since I am one of the 4 remaining children - I answered it. I was defending the honor of my mother, who's birthday was Oct. 4, the date that ridiculous question was put out.
Mod note: moonie's first post was deleted, as it addressed a specific person (who's no longer here), rather than adoption in general.
Because since I'm an adoptee, you're talking about ME, and telling me what I should or shouldn't feel.
That's simply rude.
No I was quoting the position of others who are not being called rude. AND POINTING IT OUT FOR THE BS IT IS.
HimmelBlau
"Any of you nay-sayers should be grateful you had warm beds and full tummies."
The naysayers, being ADOPTEES who had the gall to not consider adoptive parents heroes.
"It's nice to be able to connect with fellow heroes "
And lets be clear, I am only pointing out that an entire group of people who posted that their adoptions were not sunshine and roses were silenced. ANd that those who feel they have the right to tell adoptees to be grateful are being welcomed with open arms. So it is hugely hypocritical to call me rude for quoting the position of many here and NOT CALL THEM OUT ON IT.
No I was quoting the position of others who are not being called rude. AND POINTING IT OUT FOR THE BS IT IS.
HimmelBlau
"Any of you nay-sayers should be grateful you had warm beds and full tummies."
The naysayers, being ADOPTEES who had the gall to not consider adoptive parents heroes.
"It's nice to be able to connect with fellow heroes "
And lets be clear, I am only pointing out that an entire group of people who posted that their adoptions were not sunshine and roses were silenced. ANd that those who feel they have the right to tell adoptees to be grateful are being welcomed with open arms. So it is hugely hypocritical to call me rude for quoting the position of many here and NOT CALL THEM OUT ON IT.
Send that poster a DM. I probably wouldn't have used the word "hero" but I think you are overreacting and getting angry over that particular post. I DMed you as well yesterday trying to give you a bit of support and perspective. You are very angry though and see this as discrimination towards a particular group of people that have been "silenced". As others have tried to point out, coming to the forums to intentionally stir up controversy and shout down everyone who may have a differing opinion isn't the best way to get your point across. I think that they still would have been here had they behaved in a more civil fashion and not made every discussion a fight to the death (Sorry Dark, you can snip if I've said anything that crosses the line).
Let's be clear though as an adoptive parent, I've never called myself a hero nor expected my kids to be grateful for being adopted. If adoptive parents are saying this, well I think they probably need to rethink their words which are insensitive imo. My kids though as middle class Americans living a comfortable life with so many out of work now SHOULD be grateful----not as adoptees but two American kids living in a very comfortable middle class existance. Times are tough and our family is fortunate. That is what we try to impart to them. There are many in this world that are less fortunate. I would think that most parents try to impart this. As to heroism, nah. I did see our adoption as a means to bring two great kids into our lives and give them a better chance at life. If anyone sees that is wrong, I really don't know what to say to you. Most of us are fully aware that adoption is not sunshine and roses and there are going to be some really, really tough days. Anyone going into this life altering experience thinking it is going to be sunshine and roses is going to get a healthy dose of reality.
Send that poster a DM. I probably wouldn't have used the word "hero" but I think you are overreacting and getting angry over that particular post. I DMed you as well yesterday trying to give you a bit of support and perspective. You are very angry though and see this as discrimination towards a particular group of people that have been "silenced". As others have tried to point out, coming to the forums to intentionally stir up controversy and shout down everyone who may have a differing opinion isn't the best way to get your point across. I think that they still would have been here had they behaved in a more civil fashion and not made every discussion a fight to the death (Sorry Dark, you can snip if I've said anything that crosses the line).
Ah, so if anyone disagree with anything to do with adoption they have to do it over DM. Meanwhile all the pro-adoption, pro gratitude, pro-APs "are heros" posters get to say whatever they like in posts. Responding to them in a post is not acceptable. Got it.
As for your DM you stated that an entire group was silenced because of ONE poster fighting with a moderator.
But anyone saying anything about adoption that isn't pro-adoption is now painted as "angry" and "overreacting". Seems to be a recurring theme.
The irony is, I was pro-adoption until I have seen first hand the number of people on this very board telling adoptees how to feel. And because I stood up and said they should get to voice their opinions I was called rude, angry, and over reacting. No wonder many adoptees ARE ANGRY over their treatment not just on this board but by society in general.
Ah, so if anyone disagree with anything to do with adoption they have to do it over DM. Meanwhile all the pro-adoption, pro gratitude, pro-APs "are heros" posters get to say whatever they like in posts. Responding to them in a post is not acceptable. Got it.
Oh, good grief. That's not the case at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
But anyone saying anything about adoption that isn't pro-adoption is now painted as "angry" and "overreacting". Seems to be a recurring theme.
There are still several posts here -- and members posting them -- that aren't exclusively pro-adoption. That you choose to ignore them is not the fault of anyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
The irony is, I was pro-adoption until I have seen first hand the number of people on this very board telling adoptees how to feel. And because I stood up and said they should get to voice their opinions I was called rude, angry, and over reacting. No wonder many adoptees ARE ANGRY over their treatment not just on this board but by society in general.
Well, arguing on this board isn't going to change anything.
However, since the focus of this thread has turned away from discussing adoption to discussing discussions, it's time to shut it down.
If anyone has specific adoption-related topics they'd like to discuss, please start a thread or contribute to an on-going one.
Thanks.
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