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Old 10-25-2012, 05:43 PM
 
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Additionally, today, the adoptive patents retain a copy of the OBC as well. They can provide this to their adopted child, so again, the anonymity is not there. It is only once the adoption is finalized that the adoptee cannot get the OBC.

Closed adoptions now do not mean there is zero exchange of information. It means the mother does not wish for further contact with the child once they are adopted.

Adults have no intrinsic right to privacy. The only thing we have a legal right to is to be free from harassment. If a parent is contacted and they wish to have no contact, they can simply say so. If the adoptee persists in contact, the parent can take the same a room any of us do if harassed.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffjoy View Post
Additionally, today, the adoptive patents retain a copy of the OBC as well. They can provide this to their adopted child, so again, the anonymity is not there. It is only once the adoption is finalized that the adoptee cannot get the OBC.
Another good point Tiffjoy. And just because adoptive parents CAN provide the OBC doesn't mean that they do. It is in the best interests of the adult adoptees to be considered as an individual who has the same access to their factual birth certificate as non-adoptees. We should not have to rely on third parties (adoptive parents, state governments, adoption agencies) to give us our own information.

I am a 41-year-old woman. I haven't needed anyone to parent me in some time now. I'm also perfectly capable of managing my own life affairs. There is no reason for me to rely on mommy and daddy to provide me with a copy of my own birth certificate. I should have the same right to my factual birth certificate as all non-adopted adults.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gcm7189 View Post
Another good point Tiffjoy. And just because adoptive parents CAN provide the OBC doesn't mean that they do. It is in the best interests of the adult adoptees to be considered as an individual who has the same access to their factual birth certificate as non-adoptees. We should not have to rely on third parties (adoptive parents, state governments, adoption agencies) to give us our own information.

I am a 41-year-old woman. I haven't needed anyone to parent me in some time now. I'm also perfectly capable of managing my own life affairs. There is no reason for me to rely on mommy and daddy to provide me with a copy of my own birth certificate. I should have the same right to my factual birth certificate as all non-adopted adults.
I completely agree with you that parents should not be the ones with the power to decide if adopted get their OBC. That is not rigjt. I just wanted to point out the irony of the situation.

We have a completely open relationship with our daughter's first parents. None of us realized the birth cert would be changed in this way until after. It really hurt their feelings, and my husband and I didn't understand why when we all know each other, there is this secrecy imposed by the government. It doesn't even make sense anymore to have it this way when the majority of adoptions are open. Even the adult parents are not able to make a choice in this.
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Back at home in western Washington!
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[quote=gcm7189;26635516]This is not true. The original birth certificates of adoptees are not supposed to be destroyed. And in fact, no state destroys the original birth certificates of adoptees. [quote]

My SIL was told specifically to destroy her daughter's original BC when the new one was issued with her new last name on it (SIL's husband adopted the girl). Technically, there cannot be two BCs for one person. The one with the old (no longer legal) name on it becomes void and is supposed to be destroyed.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sabinerose View Post
My SIL was told specifically to destroy her daughter's original BC when the new one was issued with her new last name on it (SIL's husband adopted the girl). Technically, there cannot be two BCs for one person. The one with the old (no longer legal) name on it becomes void and is supposed to be destroyed.
If your SIL had a personal copy of the OBC, she was free to destroy that copy. But state governments do not destroy the original birth certificates of adoptees. The original, factual birth certificates are sealed away in a legal file. Currently, five states grant adult adoptees access to their original birth certificates. The state of my birth does not grant adult adoptees open access to their original birth certificates but an adoptee can petition the court and attempt to provide cause. I successfully did this and I currently have a copy of my original birth certificate.

Our original birth certificates are not legally recognized. The only birth certificate I'm legally allowed to use is the one that was falsified to make it appear as though my adoptive parents gave birth to me. But no state government destroys the original, correct version that is kept by the court system.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:04 PM
 
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[quote=Sabinerose;26693949][quote=gcm7189;26635516]This is not true. The original birth certificates of adoptees are not supposed to be destroyed. And in fact, no state destroys the original birth certificates of adoptees.
Quote:

My SIL was told specifically to destroy her daughter's original BC when the new one was issued with her new last name on it (SIL's husband adopted the girl). Technically, there cannot be two BCs for one person. The one with the old (no longer legal) name on it becomes void and is supposed to be destroyed.
That's terribly sad that someone would actually tell her to do that.

My daughter's OBC is in a fire proof safe with all our adoption related materials, including medical history forms and a bunch of questionnaires my husband and I filled out as well as her other parents. It belongs to her- destroying it would be so wrong of me. I have no right to that material- it belongs to her.

Additionally, I made several scans of her OBC as backup. Her other parents each have a copy as well.

So I really don't get the destroy it whole thing. All three copies were ordered by the adoption agency, even.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:05 PM
 
1,024 posts, read 984,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabinerose View Post
This is not true. The original birth certificates of adoptees are not supposed to be destroyed. And in fact, no state destroys the original birth certificates of adoptees.

My SIL was told specifically to destroy her daughter's original BC when the new one was issued with her new last name on it (SIL's husband adopted the girl). Technically, there cannot be two BCs for one person. The one with the old (no longer legal) name on it becomes void and is supposed to be destroyed.
Maybe they told her the copy she had in her possession should be destroyed, but I am not sure who told your SIL to do that or why? The government does not destroy our original birth certificates, they only deny our access to them.

So yes two BCs do exist, but only the amended one is legally recognized.
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:48 PM
 
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Sabinerose said:
Quote:
My SIL was told specifically to destroy her daughter's original BC when the new one was issued with her new last name on it (SIL's husband adopted the girl). Technically, there cannot be two BCs for one person. The one with the old (no longer legal) name on it becomes void and is supposed to be destroyed.
Not to pile on the responses - the court unsealed my adoption records and the raised seal certified original birth certifcate I received from that unsealing - states in the bottom left corner...

This is an original record from a sealed file as requested by a court order. This is not the legal birth certificate currently on file for this person.

They cannot destroy the orignal record that is against the law as it is a vital record - they (the court) can only seal it from being accessed without a court order or a revision of the law. Adoptees from Oregon, Illinois, RI, and others states all received their original birth certificates when the law changed.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:19 AM
 
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If the adoptee was born in another country, does anyone know what happens to their OBC there or if there is a way to petition a court for it?
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
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In Sweden, where my family is from, there are no birth certificates. Instead people use a document called "proof of personhood" which contains various personal information such as name, birth date, place of birth, etc. There is also a longer version you can get that lists the names of the parents but the shorter version is the one that is used for ID purposes when getting a passport and stuff like that. The proof of personhood document for an adoptee would be no different than that of a non-adoptee. On the longer version the name of the adoptive parents are listed as parents but it does not say that the mother gave birth to the child. In that sense it's not fraudulent since the adoptive parents are in fact the parents but it does not claim that they are biological parents when they are not. Since the standard proof of personhood document doesn't mention parents anyway the problems faced by adoptees here in the US is a non-issue in Sweden. Couldn't we have a similar system here.

I don't see why a guardianship system would be needed to avoid the lying and the secrecy of the current adoption system. There are some definite drawbacks with such a system. It doesn't provide for the permanency of adoption and the child is not legally recognized as the full, actual child of the parents. It would leave the child with no real parents and could lead to feelings of differentness (is that a word?).
Forcing an adoptee to have to carry around documents that says that he's adopted (like stating it on the BC) isn't a good option either, imo. That would make them even more of a subgroup among citizens than they are now. All this could really be easily handled by having a document that only states actual facts - that aparents are the parents but not the people who created and birthed the child. No?
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