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Old 12-13-2012, 09:20 AM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,840,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susankate View Post
Stop with the crap, people. The adoptive parents on here have been far more critical towards us adoptees than vice versa.

For example, some of the adoptive parents on here are saying that those adoptees who wish to have contact with their bparents are doing so because they are "disgruntled",another AP implied that that those adoptees who don't consider their adoption to be a blessing are bitter individuals and another adoptive parent cast aspersions on Tiff's parenting skills and then has the hide to turn around and cry that we are attacking her. A large number of adoptive parents on here seem to associate curiosity with betrayal which makes me sad for those adoptive parents that they feel so threatened.

Try and open your minds a bit and you might find that we are actually nice people.
I think that both sides have been critical actually and that is why these boards turn into sides and defensive arguments towards one another. Hell, I get lambasted for using the words "win-win," have had my reading comphrension insulted (no I do not have a reading disability thanks much), my motives towards my children questioned, have had the ethics of my adoption challenged, etc. The list goes on. Again, I personally don't have any beef towards adoption reform and things needing to change in the adoption process. The Ethopia thread is interesting as well as the Utah case which shouldn't have happened. I think that many adoptive parents probably have more common ground than you may think.

Let me address the personal attacks though since your brought them up. I have never meant to question anyone's parenting skills and I've replied to Tiffjoy in a DM over a month? ago. I know she is an excellent mother. I do feel badly that she took it as a personal attack and I apologize. Sometimes when we write things, they can come out harsher than they sound. Again, I do apogize and in this case, I may have been reading challenged when I wrote that. From the bottom of my heart I never meant to imply she was a bad parent. These CD boards always have disagreements. Even if I disagree with you about some aspect of parenting, it doesn't mean that I'm questioning your parenting abilities. I know that Dark has cautioned us about discussing one another and not the topic at hand. If you want to DM me, feel free.

Finally, I agree with your last sentence completely with the addition of "adoptive parent". Add in one more thing though--Try to open your minds a bit and you might find many of the adoptive parents here on this board are actually nice people too.

As one final note and getting back to the topic at hand---I have to gently disagree with Sheena on this one. My kids are free to call their biological parents whatever they wish. I refer to their birth parents as their biological parents or Russian parents or Russian mom and dad. If my daughter asks me a question about her "mom," I don't get upset. She knows the details about her adoption and we've always have been very candid with her. I'm not "threatened" at all about words and labels. As other adoptees have so eloqently pointed out, it is really their call and not mine as an adoptive parent as to how they address their birth parents. I've always have been comfortable with that.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:54 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,497,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MirrenC View Post
Of course, resent whom you like, but I specifically did not say, "I have never heard of any adoptee who resents his/her adoptive parents." I said, to be precise, "I am not sure which adoptees here had miserable lives and resent their adoptive parents. I cannot think of any."

Experiences vary widely, and I am sorry I was unfamiliar with your story.

Malamute drew a false correlation between people who had miserable lives, hate their adoptive parents, and want adoption to end. As you know, it's far more complicated than that. People can resent their adoptive parents and think that adoption is just fine as it is, love their adoptive parents and want adoption reform, and everything in between.
Not just this thread but I see quite a lot of condemnation of adoptive parents and the adoption process on this forum. Even the condemning of people who truly wanted children as though the desire to have a child is somehow a wrong motive in adoption.

I am very close with a young woman who was adopted as a young child, her memories of her birth mother aren't many but she does remember being put into a clothes dryer and she knows there are reasons she and her numerous birth half siblings were removed from this woman. She is curious to meet her siblings but not so much the monster that abused and neglected them.

I also know that giving up a child is a heart wrenching process for many other women and they do so out of great love and concern for their child. They want for their child what they cannot themselves give that child and sometimes never had themselves. I very much admire them.

The OP knows more about her children's situation than any of us on here. It's wrong to be all high and mighty and pretend otherwise. I actually defended the use of "birth-mother" because just like "mother-in-law" the term itself doesn't not really describe the individual or the closeness of the relationship.

I think many adoptees meet the woman who gave them life and have a wonderful reunion and relationship with them. Others not so much. Everyone is different, each case is different.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,392 posts, read 14,235,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Dubble T, the "bio" father gets called that by me. I choose to call him that because that is all he deserves.
My post was aimed at adoptive parent who think that by depersonalizing the biological parents they somehow make them less important, less worthy, and I don't think adoptive parents should be making that decision for the children. Adopted children can and should call their biological parent whatever they feel is appropriate.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:35 AM
 
125 posts, read 131,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I think many adoptees meet the woman who gave them life and have a wonderful reunion and relationship with them. Others not so much. Everyone is different, each case is different.
Exactly.

Last edited by MirrenC; 12-13-2012 at 11:25 AM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:53 AM
 
42 posts, read 38,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
My post was aimed at adoptive parent who think that by depersonalizing the biological parents they somehow make them less important, less worthy, and I don't think adoptive parents should be making that decision for the children. Adopted children can and should call their biological parent whatever they feel is appropriate.
DubbleT, this hits on an important point. Language itself, not only in the area of adoption but in a multitude of contexts, has the power to influence. The terms we use in adoption matter!

Of course, I don't think we'll ever come to full agreement on which terms are best, because there is such a variety of circumstances. A adoptee like me, whose mother had no choice, may choose different terms to describe her reality than someone who came from an abusive background in the biological family. Someone who sufferred abuse at the hands of adoptive parents might choose different terms altogether. So, we probably won't ever have one set of terminology that feels comfortable to adoptees across the board.

What you hit on though was crucial. Terms like "birth person", particularly when initiated by the adoptive parents, are harmful because they purposely create emotional distance from and devalue the biological parents.

I would actually argue that term "birthmother" does the same thing --though I don't believe that is always intentional -- but that is probably a separate thread.

What I also find interesting is the dichotomy of the biological mother as selfless and heroic and simultaniously so unimportant that she is viewed as naught but a vessel for birthing.

So what we end up with is a saintly woman "chose life" and who loves her child so very much that she is willing to sacrifice herself for she what believes is in the child's best interests, but who is so lowly that all vestiges of the title of "mother" must be anihilated.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:04 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,497,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adopteeWPD View Post
DubbleT, this hits on an important point. Language itself, not only in the area of adoption but in a multitude of contexts, has the power to influence. The terms we use in adoption matter!

Of course, I don't think we'll ever come to full agreement on which terms are best, because there is such a variety of circumstances. A adoptee like me, whose mother had no choice, may choose different terms to describe her reality than someone who came from an abusive background in the biological family. Someone who sufferred abuse at the hands of adoptive parents might choose different terms altogether. So, we probably won't ever have one set of terminology that feels comfortable to adoptees across the board.

What you hit on though was crucial. Terms like "birth person", particularly when initiated by the adoptive parents, are harmful because they purposely create emotional distance from and devalue the biological parents.

I would actually argue that term "birthmother" does the same thing --though I don't believe that is always intentional -- but that is probably a separate thread.

What I also find interesting is the dichotomy of the biological mother as selfless and heroic and simultaniously so unimportant that she is viewed as naught but a vessel for birthing.

So what we end up with is a saintly woman "chose life" and who loves her child so very much that she is willing to sacrifice herself for she what believes is in the child's best interests, but who is so lowly that all vestiges of the title of "mother" must be anihilated.
I'll go with saintly woman who chose life and sacrifice for her child -- in most cases I think that is the case.

My adopted cousin told me that when she gave birth and first held her baby in her arms, she understood very fully what her 14 year old biological mother felt and sacrificed for her. She said she had always been fine with being adopted -- but any lingering "whys?" were resolved in that moment.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:12 AM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,840,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adopteeWPD View Post
What I also find interesting is the dichotomy of the biological mother as selfless and heroic and simultaniously so unimportant that she is viewed as naught but a vessel for birthing.

So what we end up with is a saintly woman "chose life" and who loves her child so very much that she is willing to sacrifice herself for she what believes is in the child's best interests, but who is so lowly that all vestiges of the title of "mother" must be anihilated.
Referring to the bolded part of your posts, yikes, who feels this way? I certainly don't as an adoptive parent. Sheena has her opinion---thus why she started this thread---and I don't feel as she does. I'm not sure what you described is what other adoptive parents feel either.

My emotions towards my kid's biological parents are very mixed but nothing like what you described. I keep my emotions to myself though since the circumstances of both of their adoptions are very sad. There was extreme abuse and neglect in both of our cases so saintly isn't in my vocubulary either. Each case is so different.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:12 AM
 
42 posts, read 38,927 times
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Why saintly? Why applaud the decision to take on a lifetime of loss instead of supporting the mother who loves her child so that neither need to know the pain of that separation?

Probably should be a different thread. I understand if mod removes.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:16 AM
 
42 posts, read 38,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
Referring to the bolded part of your posts, yikes, who feels this way? I certainly don't as an adoptive parent. Sheena has her opinion---thus why she started this thread---and I don't feel as she does. I'm not sure what you described is what other adoptive parents feel either.

My emotions towards my kid's biological parents are very mixed but nothing like what you described. I keep my emotions to myself though since the circumstances of both of their adoptions are very sad.
Linmora, I would agree with you. I think there are many adoptive parents who don't feel that way either. In fact, I would say the majority of adoptive parents I know and call friends feel nothing like this, which I guess is partly why I'm so confused by the OP. My post was pertaining only to the use of the term "birth person" as presented in the original post.


"My emotions towards my kid's biological parents are very mixed but nothing like what you described. I keep my emotions to myself though since the circumstances of both of their adoptions are very sad. There was extreme abuse and neglect in both of our cases so saintly isn't in my vocubulary either. Each case is so different."

Can't figure out how to quote you in an edit, but I'm so sorry to hear that.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:27 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,497,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adopteeWPD View Post
Why saintly? Why applaud the decision to take on a lifetime of loss instead of supporting the mother who loves her child so that neither need to know the pain of that separation?

Probably should be a different thread. I understand if mod removes.
You brought up the term -- and I think in many cases it applies. Maybe not for a lifetime of loss however. I think in many cases the woman made a great sacrifice but so that her child could have what she was not in a position to provide the child.

And as far as being supported, many women would abhor becoming helpless and dependent on others and want to make an independent life for herself. My aunt gave up a child -- it was a very difficult decision for her but raising a child would have required some huge changes in her life, losing her career if she were to give the child the kind of life she felt a child should have. She would not have liked to have lived in poverty and in government housing or raise a child that way.

You really cannot judge women who give up their children - each has her own reasons. Some will feel the loss forever, others might not -- they maybe just get on with their lives. Others might not find it hard to give up an education or career or independence and be perfectly fine with living a life of government dependency but see that as their sacrifice for their child.
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