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Old 01-22-2013, 09:07 AM
 
1,024 posts, read 984,379 times
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Wow, it is shocking that an adoptive parent is being attacked for simply acknowledging & showing empathy for their daughter's reality. Tiff I have NEVER seen you write, or got the feeling that you do not view your daughter as your child.

Adopted children have different experiences from non-adopted children, therefore there are differences in the way in which they need to be parented AT TIMES. This is obviously not saying you should love them less.

If you have a child who has experienced trauma, you will obviously need to parent them differently at times than a child who has not experienced the same trauma as each child will have vastly different needs in that regard. Acknowledging this is a GOOD thing, denying this is neglect.

From this adoptee's perspective, you are definitely not the one in need of therapy. Sheena & Jaded are.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:58 AM
 
125 posts, read 131,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
Wow, it is shocking that an adoptive parent is being attacked for simply acknowledging & showing empathy for their daughter's reality. Tiff I have NEVER seen you write, or got the feeling that you do not view your daughter as your child.

Adopted children have different experiences from non-adopted children, therefore there are differences in the way in which they need to be parented AT TIMES. This is obviously not saying you should love them less.

If you have a child who has experienced trauma, you will obviously need to parent them differently at times than a child who has not experienced the same trauma as each child will have vastly different needs in that regard. Acknowledging this is a GOOD thing, denying this is neglect.
From everything I have read of Tiff's, she is an empathetic, thoughtful, sensitive parent. It's appropriate to tailor your parenting to each child's particular needs. She is extremely admirable. I am sorry that she's being persecuted for her empathy here.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:33 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,980,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffjoy View Post
What you don't understand is our inclusiveness...Individuals should be treated as individuals...My adopted child has an added element in her life that we need to address. I don't plan to pretend like it doesn't exist. So unless you are advocating I do that, then I have no idea why you are hung up on this. I don't personally know any parent IRL who treats all their children as identical instead of as individuals.

I do heartily encourage you to understand what you speak of at least a little bit before you start insulting adoptive parents and saying they need therapy. So, maybe do some research on domestic adoption and open adoption. You will find that although there are APs who do not have contact or have closed contact after initially having openess (a whole different topic), there are a lot of us who find that although we entered openness for the sake of our child, we ended up discovering the richness that comes from adding love into your life. My daughter's first parents have become family. I feel very sorry for you if you think love is cause for therapy.

I don't expect any of this to change your mind, and that's not my goal in life. But stop inserting words, feelings, and beliefs into my mouth that I never wrote. It's mildly annoying.
I undertstand completely. As I've stated before, I'm not new to adoption. As far as researching open adoption, don't need to. I am very familiar with it. I've seen it work when done correctly. What you describe is more like fostering, not adoption. So, you should do more research.

Treating people as individuals. This is not some foreign concept to me that you seem to believe it is. You can very well treat your children as individuals AND parent them equally. Of course they are individuals. But in your quest to soothe your feelings about your adoption, it is clear from your posts that you will unintentionally display a difference in the treatment and feelings with your biological child vs your adopted one. This is not healthy, normal, nor should it be admired.

So, as requested, to remind you of what you've said on these posts, below is a sampling:

From the Thread "Abuse in Adoptive families", page 15, paragraph 3

Quote:
And a perfect life for her would not include me.
Quote:
Her life with us will be different, but not necessarily better.
Quote:
If I could have waved a wand and kept her family whole, I would have.
Quote:
I know I hurt a lot for my daughter and her parents, and I wracked with guilt, pain, and am overwhelming desire to run out into the hallway and put their baby back in their arms.
But I'd do anything in my power to prevent either of my children from experiencing pain and loss in life, even at my own personal expense.
This last quote contradicts your above statements. This is what I mean by "face changing."

Quote:
Truthfully, we were not at all prepared for the onslaught of emotions we felt.
Probably your most honest and clear statement. This does occur often in adoption. Did you read the PAD thread before attacking me there?

And actually, after re-reading these statements, you may very well be suffering from PAD.

Never said you didn't love your children. You would be a perfect Foster Parent. But you will learn in time that your views as an Adoptive Parent are likely doing more harm than good to your family and your adopted daughter's "first" family.

To you and all your supporters, I don't need therapy. I don't mix statements and then claim that I never said these things. If the above quotes don't represent how you feel, then you should state that you misspoke. I've already been cleared with regard to my parental fitness and my views validated by professionals. CD is not where I come for validation - so we are in agreement here.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:42 PM
 
1,024 posts, read 984,379 times
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Jaded, it would be wise for you to listen to adult adoptees about their experiences of adoption & what has, or has not helped them. You seem to think that Tiff is wrong in her approach, but from my experience & also my education on the matter YOU are the one who needs to re-think their approach.

As you can see, there are no adoptees here telling Tiff that her approach is wrong or would create difficulties for them. Why you willfully choose to ignore the adult adoptees who say it would have benefited them growing up, I do not know.

Tiff is acknowledging the reality of her adopted child... to brush all of that under the rug, act as though they were "born to you" & refuse to accept reality is not HEALTHY, nor is it advised by adoption counselors today.

Adopted children have different experiences than non-adoptive children, therefore they have different needs. Different needs acquire different parenting techniques, I don't know why anyone would argue that.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:13 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,980,790 times
Reputation: 2365
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
Jaded, it would be wise for you to listen to adult adoptees about their experiences of adoption & what has, or has not helped them. You seem to think that Tiff is wrong in her approach, but from my experience & also my education on the matter YOU are the one who needs to re-think their approach.

As you can see, there are no adoptees here telling Tiff that her approach is wrong or would create difficulties for them. Why you willfully choose to ignore the adult adoptees who say it would have benefited them growing up, I do not know.

Tiff is acknowledging the reality of her adopted child... to brush all of that under the rug, act as though they were "born to you" & refuse to accept reality is not HEALTHY, nor is it advised by adoption counselors today.

Adopted children have different experiences than non-adoptive children, therefore they have different needs. Different needs acquire different parenting techniques, I don't know why anyone would argue that.
I have and have shared yours and Tiff's views with them and they are not in agreement with you or her. Sorry to burst your bubble.

With regard to adopted children having different needs, they do. But that isn't what I am referring to and quite frankly, am done discussing this topic.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:18 PM
 
509 posts, read 483,055 times
Reputation: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
I have and have shared yours and Tiff's views with them and they are not in agreement with you or her. Sorry to burst your bubble.

With regard to adopted children having different needs, they do. But that isn't what I am referring to and quite frankly, am done discussing this topic.
If you twisted my words to them as much as you do here, I'm not surprised.

You aren't the ONLY one with friends who are adoptees, you know.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,131,512 times
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The first time that I adopted I went to Korea to adopt an infant girl. Why? Because we wanted to raise an infant girl. Korea? Because we did not want the drama of an open adoption. there will always be people who want to adopt an infant. There will always be closed adoptions.

You can like it or not.

This time to Ukraine to adopt older children. We are elated and as excited as expectant parents! Why Ukraine? For the same reason as Korea.
If our daughter ever showed any interest in searching for the woman who gave birth to her as an adult we would be surprised because it is very contrary to her personality.

No one knows her better than us, her parents,

Would we help? Probably not. We are not in favor of this and it would cost time and money. Would we understand? Yes. We would understand that she might be curious at some point but still we doubt it would ever happen.

We would be the first after her spouse if there is one to know. I know she'd want our opinion and we would give it.

We will alwaus love her because of the beautiful person that she is, inside and out. We are part of who she is, who she has become and will become. We continue to raise both of our children with love and attention to their needs as individuls.

Moderator cut: personal, off topic remarks

Last edited by Marka; 01-23-2013 at 02:01 AM..
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Camberville
11,983 posts, read 16,709,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
The first time that I adopted I went to Korea to adopt an infant girl. Why? Because we wanted to raise an infant girl. Korea? Because we did not want the drama of an open adoption. there will always be people who want to adopt an infant. There will always be closed adoptions.

You can like it or not.

This time to Ukraine to adopt older children. We are elated and as excited as expectant parents! Why Ukraine? For the same reason as Korea.
If our daughter ever showed any interest in searching for the woman who gave birth to her as an adult we would be surprised because it is very contrary to her personality.

No one knows her better than us, her parents,

Would we help? Probably not. We are not in favor of this and it would cost time and money. Would we understand? Yes. We would understand that she might be curious at some point but still we doubt it would ever happen.

We would be the first after her spouse if there is one to know. I know she'd want our opinion and we would give it.

We will alwaus love her because of the beautiful person that she is, inside and out. We are part of who she is, who she has become and will become. We continue to raise both of our children with love and attention to their needs as individuls.

Moderator cut: personal, off topic remarks
This is a shame. My model adoptive family was my best friend's parents. They, too, adopted her from Korea. But they also made sure to keep her involved in her culture while also fully incorporating her in their American culture. She took Korean language lessons with other Korean adoptees as a kid, went to Korean camp, and went to ever Korean festival and restaurant within 3 states. It didn't click when she was a child - she used to joke that her parents should adopt me because I loved going to the Korean stuff more than she did.

And then she hit college, and decided that she wanted to discover her roots. For the girl who had no interest in her background for the first 18 years of her life, she ended up graduating with minors in Korean language and East Asian studies. After graduation, she wanted to find her roots and go back to Korea. And guess what? Her parents not only funded it (with money they put away for just this purpose when she was young - and even through all of the years as a child where she showed no interest) but they were invited to come with her.

All of their support of her engaging with her culture of birth meant that when she finally did return, they were able to frame it around their start as a family, rather than it be a solitary experience for her. Her parents were able to show her the orphanage where they first met her, the department store where they bought a crib for their hotel room, the hotel, the language school they attended while waiting for the adoption to go through, etc. Their close relationship as a family stayed strong. I am certain (since no one knows a young adult as well as their closest friends) that she would have no relationship with her parents today if her parents acted the way that you do.

You don't think it's disrespectful to your daughter to have such disdain for her birth parents that you show in your posts here? It is. You are not 100% of her background, as much as you might want to be. When you chose to adopt, you chose to accept that you were opening up your family to a wider array of cultures and heritage. Ignoring that does not make it go away. For your sake, I hope your daughter truly does not have any interest in her heritage rather than hiding it because she knows how you feel.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:46 AM
 
1,024 posts, read 984,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
This is a shame. My model adoptive family was my best friend's parents. They, too, adopted her from Korea. But they also made sure to keep her involved in her culture while also fully incorporating her in their American culture. She took Korean language lessons with other Korean adoptees as a kid, went to Korean camp, and went to ever Korean festival and restaurant within 3 states. It didn't click when she was a child - she used to joke that her parents should adopt me because I loved going to the Korean stuff more than she did.

And then she hit college, and decided that she wanted to discover her roots. For the girl who had no interest in her background for the first 18 years of her life, she ended up graduating with minors in Korean language and East Asian studies. After graduation, she wanted to find her roots and go back to Korea. And guess what? Her parents not only funded it (with money they put away for just this purpose when she was young - and even through all of the years as a child where she showed no interest) but they were invited to come with her.

All of their support of her engaging with her culture of birth meant that when she finally did return, they were able to frame it around their start as a family, rather than it be a solitary experience for her. Her parents were able to show her the orphanage where they first met her, the department store where they bought a crib for their hotel room, the hotel, the language school they attended while waiting for the adoption to go through, etc. Their close relationship as a family stayed strong. I am certain (since no one knows a young adult as well as their closest friends) that she would have no relationship with her parents today if her parents acted the way that you do.
This.

I did not consciously have an interest in knowing my biological family until well after college, either. It really is not uncommon for adoptees to feel very differently in their adult years than they did as teens.

It is always good to hear about adoptive families that fully support this kind of encouraging & accepting atmosphere, rather than ones that see no problem in suppressing an adoptee's natural inclination to want to know their roots. Whether they change their mind or not, it is best for adoptive parents to be prepared & supportive no matter what the outcome.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:51 AM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,748 posts, read 3,324,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
This is a shame. My model adoptive family was my best friend's parents. They, too, adopted her from Korea. But they also made sure to keep her involved in her culture while also fully incorporating her in their American culture. She took Korean language lessons with other Korean adoptees as a kid, went to Korean camp, and went to ever Korean festival and restaurant within 3 states. It didn't click when she was a child - she used to joke that her parents should adopt me because I loved going to the Korean stuff more than she did.

That is YOUR MODEL adoptive family. Our daughter was not interested in studying Korean or in going to culture camp. Both were offered to her with joy and an open heart. She was not interested in either one.
We have taken her to Korean restaurants. We are all vegetarians and what we can eat there is limited. There is a great Vegan Korean Restaurant in NYC, but we like the food better than she does. We also like Kim Chee - a spicey Korean relish made with cabbage. She detests it.

She has a variety of Hamboks - traditional Korean women's dresses. She enjoyed wearing them when she was younger. If you look at the Celebrating Adoption thread, that would be our daughter dressed in the Hambok with my wife.

And then she hit college, and decided that she wanted to discover her roots. For the girl who had no interest in her background for the first 18 years of her life, she ended up graduating with minors in Korean language and East Asian studies. After graduation, she wanted to find her roots and go back to Korea. And guess what? Her parents not only funded it (with money they put away for just this purpose when she was young - and even through all of the years as a child where she showed no interest) but they were invited to come with her.

Well our daughter is still in High School. She is studying French and is good at it. She wants to visit France someday and her temtitive college major is Fashion Design. She wants to spend a year abroad - in Paris or Milan.

All of their support of her engaging with her culture of birth meant that when she finally did return, they were able to frame it around their start as a family, rather than it be a solitary experience for her. Her parents were able to show her the orphanage where they first met her, the department store where they bought a crib for their hotel room, the hotel, the language school they attended while waiting for the adoption to go through, etc. Their close relationship as a family stayed strong. I am certain (since no one knows a young adult as well as their closest friends) that she would have no relationship with her parents today if her parents acted the way that you do.

We have encouraged it too. However she isn't that interested. We are not that interested in our ethnic backgrounds either. We are interested in many different cultures and we enjoy learning about them. We do not dwell on our own, nor do we deny them. My wife and I are from different back grounds.

How do you know how we "act"? t's not fair for you to compare us to this other family. Just because the other girl was adopted from Korea and our daughter was, does not mean that they have anything in common. What ethnic group are you descended from? Are you wildly interested in it? It's kind of like racial profiling to say that all Korean adoptees feel the same way. Or all Koreans. Or all anyone.

You don't think it's disrespectful to your daughter to have such disdain for her birth parents that you show in your posts here? It is. You are not 100% of her background, as much as you might want to be. When you chose to adopt, you chose to accept that you were opening up your family to a wider array of cultures and heritage. Ignoring that does not make it go away. For your sake, I hope your daughter truly does not have any interest in her heritage rather than hiding it because she knows how you feel.
There is no disdain for anyone. If we disdained other cultures, why would we adopt an Asian daughter when we are white? Some people will only adopt within their own ethnic group. That's their choice. Not ours.

Between "disrespectful" - diminishing the person, her culture, her genetic contribution to our daughter's appearance. , and idolatry - active forcing of a strange woman into her life, talking about her all the time, asking our daughter to remember her or thank her on mother's day, lies a sort of matter of fact acceptance that, yes, our daughter was born to another woman in another country. The woman did not want to raise her or marry the father. She wanted to go to a university. She was not ready to parent. We respect that and we'd never barge into her life. Our daughter is disinterested. She has a mother and father. Our daughter is beautiful. We can't take credit for that. Our son is handsome. We can take credit for that because he is biological. Both our kids have really good and similar personalities and they absolutely have our mannerisms.

We have no contempt or disrespect for this woman. In fact, we think she did the right thing. She did not let an unplanned for pregnancy stand in the way of her education and she did not let her boyfriend pressure her into a young marriage. She was determined to not be derailed by this pregnancy.

She did not want contact and we do not want contact. We were ready and anxious to parent and looking for a little girl. We were presented with her picture and we knew that this was our little girl.
There is no contempt or disrespect. As a family, we do not believe in adoption reunions. Our daughter is part of the opinions of our family. She would not want to be tracked down by the birth mother - or tracked down if she WAS a birth mother. She likes her privacy and she has good boundaries.

Where do you get the idea that we are not open to other cultures? We love to travel to other counties, eat different foods and learn about the customs of other cultures.; We are just not that into are own over others. We don't disrespect anyone or any culture. We live in a multi ethnic, multi cultural area and we all have friends of diverse back grounds. Our children do too. But there is not an unnatural facination with Korea as opposed to any of the other countries from which our family is decended. If anything we have given more attention to Korea. We could not force her to go to culture camp, but we did send them to a very special summer camp that "celebrated human diversity" when they were younger. There were many multi racial and bi-racial kids there, kids with gay parents or famous parents. Not all of the kids were rich as in many summer camps - they gave out many scholarships. However some were.
Bob Marley's grandson is a friend of our children. They met him at that camp.

Please do not judge us. We are loving and devoted parents. Thank you.
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