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You really should not have adopted if you can calmly state that you feel your bio child needs different parenting than your adopted infant baby. Seriously, I don't know how you slipped through the cracks, but this is the most horrifying statement I've ever heard made from a person who has both bio and adopted kids and they adopted at infancy.
When you find the link, I'm waiting. As I stated before. The homestudy process in language states for the best interest of the child; I never discounted that. However, in reality, when you go through a homestudy, you are experiencing what most bio-parents take for granted. The financial records, personal references, child raising classes, etc. It is for YOUR benefit as an adoptive parent, and it is often presented as only being necessary for the benefit of the child. There really isn't any arguing with this fact.
A few sicko's unacceptable? Well, tell that to the social workers who have to deal with the bio-parents and their sicko ways when removing these children. My only point was that it is impossible to foolproof the adoption process and likewise some adoptees, just as it is impossible to know that all bio-parents are sane and worthy of parenting.
I agree with you Jaded. Adopted babies need the same exact type of love as those who arrive into their forever families through birth.
I parented my daughter through adoption the same exact way as I parented my son through biology.
With complete love and no reservations.
If someone an parent through adoption, can not at some point forget at adoption, and the birth mother and all of that business, and view their children through adoption as just "their children" they should think about therapy. Seriously think about it.
ADOPTION is not a LIFE TIME CAUSE IT"S A WAY TO BUILD ONE"S FAMILY!
I agree with you Jaded. Adopted babies need the same exact type of love as those who arrive into their forever families through birth.
I parented my daughter through adoption the same exact way as I parented my son through biology.
With complete love and no reservations.
If someone an parent through adoption, can not at some point forget at adoption, and the birth mother and all of that business, and view their children through adoption as just "their children" they should think about therapy. Seriously think about it.
ADOPTION is not a LIFE TIME CAUSE IT"S A WAY TO BUILD ONE"S FAMILY!
You completely and totally missed my point.
I'm also pretty tired of being accused of not LOVING my daughters the same amount when I have specifically said I do. My degree of love is the same. The saying I need therapy is just laughable and only reveals the pettiness of the posters saying that.
If you and Jaded would prefer to pretend that many, many adoptees here, on blogs, in articles, etc, have not indicated that they longed for their parents to recognize that their adoption was a factor in their life experiences, then fine. If you want to talk about how every adoptee you know is perfectly fine with their adoption and had no interest in theur first families, ok. Thats your experience and your right. It is not mine.
But don't accuse a complete stranger of being less loving towards their kids because they have a different view (one shared by many adoption professionals, by the way) of approaching adoption. NO ONE, including me, has accused you of that, Sheena, in spite of our differences. Stop saying i need therapy because i see things differently. Its just sully amd petty. One would think you could apply the same general courtesy to me, but I suppose that's asking for too much.
ONCE AGAIN. I love my daughters equally. But they are individuals who require different parenting approaches. This would likely be true if they were both bio. My parents treated me and my siblings as individuals. I apply the same parenting methods to my chikdren- they are unique and different in many ways. Don't agree? Fine. Stop saying I don't love my kids. It really seems beneath you and only invalidates anything else you have to say.
I agree with you Jaded. Adopted babies need the same exact type of love as those who arrive into their forever families through birth.
I parented my daughter through adoption the same exact way as I parented my son through biology.
With complete love and no reservations.
If someone an parent through adoption, can not at some point forget at adoption, and the birth mother and all of that business, and view their children through adoption as just "their children" they should think about therapy. Seriously think about it.
ADOPTION is not a LIFE TIME CAUSE IT"S A WAY TO BUILD ONE"S FAMILY!
Your problem is that you are not one for ever getting the subtleties.
For example, you are completely right that "Adopted babies need the same exact type of love as those who arrive into their forever families through birth." So in that respect, "as born to" is a wonderful thing, i.e. loving ones child/parents "as if born to" them is of course a great thing.
And what you say here is of course how all adopted parents should parent:
Quote:
I parented my daughter through adoption the same exact way as I parented my son through biology.
With complete love and no reservations.
Tiff fairly obviously loves her child in exactly the same way. She fairly obviously loves her adopted child every bit as much as if her child had been born to her. However, she also acknowledges that because her child wasn't actually born to her, her child may have questions etc that her biological child might not have and that those feelings shouldn't be invalidated - she accepts that her child is an individual person, just as she is and just as her other daughter and just as all humans are. She is also in an open adoption with her child's biological parents so it is a bit hard to "forget about them". She acknowledges that their presence in their child's life may help their child put "things into context", it also seems that she just likes them as human beings as well.
Also, Sheena, even you acknowledge yourself that when you first adopted your lovely daughter, you knew that you had to parent her slightly differently at the beginning so she could attach which was very astute of you - I remember you saying one of the other mothers from that time didn't put any time aside to do so and that her child hasn't turned out as well as your own. It seems to be also that if you are going to have an open adoption, it should be a very open one where the biological family are like an extension to one's own family rather than a "twice a year" visit type of thing - in more traditional adoptions in other lands, this seems to be how they function eg as in Polynesian adoption.
I doubt that Tiff is pushing adoption in her child's face everyday but just acknowledging that there may be questions/challenges etc that her biological child is unlikely to face.
Last edited by susankate; 01-21-2013 at 06:13 PM..
Sheena's opinion and approach to adoption is actually a great example of why prospective adoptive parents will do anything to get what they want. It is because they feel that they should be able to "build and complete families in ways that make them comfortable and mesh with their personality." Often times, it is all about what the PAPs want. If anything, Sheena has made it quite clear that her decision to adopt was all about her and that she was going to have the adoption arrangement she wanted. Again, a perfect example of why PAPs go to such lengths to get what they want. In our society, people want they want. And they expect to get what they want. I do not agree with this line of thinking because adoption is not the same as buying the hot new cell phone.
Adoption involves other people besides the PAPs. The adoptee's *needs* should be prioritized over the *wants* of PAPs. Because adoption should be about the child involved. As an adult adoptee, I do take a critical look at the way people choose to adopt. Because some of those ways are grossly disrespectful of the adoptee's *needs*. Adoption is not the same as giving birth. And it should be respectful of everyone involved, not just the *wants* of PAPs who are out there doing anything and everything they can to get a kid.
Sheena, I would be interested in hearing more about this notion that adoption is like choosing a partner. As an adult adoptee, I do not see much about current adoption practices indicating that the adoptee is considered an equal participant in building this so-called "partnership." Maybe with older children in foster care. But certainly not with infant adoption. How exactly do you view adoption as the adoptee choosing to partner with the PAPs? Because I just don't see it that way. Or are you really just referring to a one-sided "partnership" that is built to the PAPs specs only?
Our adoption was a partnership between us and the agency. That was it. We payed for a service.
It involved us and a an agency whose job it was to find us a baby. We are doing the same thing again with another country. We are not looking into or (out for) the person that these kids were taken away from. We hope this person has no more kids. In the case of our daughter, we hope that teen age women are aware that being involved sexually may result in pregnancy.
There is no partnership involved. You may want one but their is none for us. Many people feel the way we do., Yes the adoption agency was an Adoption Agency and it's job was to find us a child to adopt and to find our daughter a family who met their specifications and the ones of the country (Korea) for this baby.
There are also many cases of birth mothers intentionally ripping off desperate adoptive parents and we have read about "serial relinquishers" people who are very fertile and get pregnany over and over, give the baby away and play games.
As adoptive parents these are our issues. Not unwed mothers. Can you just wrap you head around that?
I'm also pretty tired of being accused of not LOVING my daughters the same amount when I have specifically said I do. My degree of love is the same. The saying I need therapy is just laughable and only reveals the pettiness of the posters saying that.
If you and Jaded would prefer to pretend that many, many adoptees here, on blogs, in articles, etc, have not indicated that they longed for their parents to recognize that their adoption was a factor in their life experiences, then fine. If you want to talk about how every adoptee you know is perfectly fine with their adoption and had no interest in theur first families, ok. Thats your experience and your right. It is not mine.
But don't accuse a complete stranger of being less loving towards their kids because they have a different view (one shared by many adoption professionals, by the way) of approaching adoption. NO ONE, including me, has accused you of that, Sheena, in spite of our differences. Stop saying i need therapy because i see things differently. Its just sully amd petty. One would think you could apply the same general courtesy to me, but I suppose that's asking for too much.
ONCE AGAIN. I love my daughters equally. But they are individuals who require different parenting approaches. This would likely be true if they were both bio. My parents treated me and my siblings as individuals. I apply the same parenting methods to my chikdren- they are unique and different in many ways. Don't agree? Fine. Stop saying I don't love my kids. It really seems beneath you and only invalidates anything else you have to say.
I don't think we missed your point. You answered a rhetorical question in one of my posts that was not intended for you. So, replier beware. You are the one who tried to "educate" Sheena and me about our "issues" as APs...not the other way around. So, I really am getting tired of these "face changes" of yours. I completely understand that every adoption is different and that toddler and older adoptions DO require different parenting and often involve more complex issues than infant adoptions. Perfectly aware of this.
You've adopted the new language of "first parents" and "first mother", fine. The problem I have with this language your using is that you adopted an infant! You are deliberately "seeing" a difference in her and anticipating differences only because you did not seek her out to build your family. She was offered to you by her birth parents and you and your husband had to "decide" on what to do.
This is a very different kind of adoption than mine will be and than Sheena's because we WANT/WANTED to add to our families via adoption. There is a big difference in learning to love a baby out of necessity/guilt rather than genuine desire to want that baby. I know it's hard for many who are quasi anti-adoption to fathom this.
If you re-read your post, you will see that you indeed made a difference btwn your biological child and your adopted child. "Loving" both children does not mean you are going to parent them equally. Making a statement such as yours along the lines of not hesitating to give your adopted daughter back to her "first parents" in a heartbeat is not something I would call "equal parenting." A parent fights for his/her children and would never hand over their child because it made them feel better.
We get that adopted infants have birthparents, the difference with you is that you apparently believe that gives them 100 percent access, indefinitely, to the child they choose to have parented by APs. I don't agree with this.
I am adopting a child to build my family; for life - better or worse. It is a lifetime commitment that I don't take lightly and that I am not making to alleviate someone else's life or to "cure" my infertility. It is not a medical treatment or a social cause for me or my husband.
Now do you understand why we feel you need therapy?
i don't think we missed your point. You answered a rhetorical question in one of my posts that was not intended for you. So, replier beware. You are the one who tried to "educate" sheena and me about our "issues" as aps...not the other way around. So, i really am getting tired of these "face changes" of yours. I completely understand that every adoption is different and that toddler and older adoptions do require different parenting and often involve more complex issues than infant adoptions. Perfectly aware of this.
You've adopted the new language of "first parents" and "first mother", fine. The problem i have with this language your using is that you adopted an infant! You are deliberately "seeing" a difference in her and anticipating differences only because you did not seek her out to build your family. She was offered to you by her birth parents and you and your husband had to "decide" on what to do.
This is a very different kind of adoption than mine will be and than sheena's because we want/wanted to add to our families via adoption. there is a big difference in learning to love a baby out of necessity/guilt rather than genuine desire to want that baby. i know it's hard for many who are quasi anti-adoption to fathom this.
WHOA!
Quote:
if you re-read your post, you will see that you indeed made a difference btwn your biological child and your adopted child. "loving" both children does not mean you are going to parent them equally. Making a statement such as yours along the lines of not hesitating to give your adopted daughter back to her "first parents" in a heartbeat is not something i would call "equal parenting." a parent fights for his/her children and would never hand over their child because it made them feel better.
what she meant is that she loved her child as a human enough to know that she wanted what was in the child's best interest, not her best interest.
Quote:
we get that adopted infants have birthparents, the difference with you is that you apparently believe that gives them 100 percent access, indefinitely, to the child they choose to have parented by aps. I don't agree with this.
she has never said that at all.
Quote:
i am adopting a child to build my family; for life - better or worse. It is a lifetime commitment that i don't take lightly and that i am not making to alleviate someone else's life or to "cure" my infertility. It is not a medical treatment or a social cause for me or my husband.
now do you understand why we feel you need therapy?
WHOA!
Oh, honey, it aint Tiff that needs therapy, believe you me.
I don't think we missed your point. You answered a rhetorical question in one of my posts that was not intended for you. So, replier beware. You are the one who tried to "educate" Sheena and me about our "issues" as APs...not the other way around. So, I really am getting tired of these "face changes" of yours. I completely understand that every adoption is different and that toddler and older adoptions DO require different parenting and often involve more complex issues than infant adoptions. Perfectly aware of this.
You've adopted the new language of "first parents" and "first mother", fine. The problem I have with this language your using is that you adopted an infant! You are deliberately "seeing" a difference in her and anticipating differences only because you did not seek her out to build your family. She was offered to you by her birth parents and you and your husband had to "decide" on what to do.
This is a very different kind of adoption than mine will be and than Sheena's because we WANT/WANTED to add to our families via adoption. There is a big difference in learning to love a baby out of necessity/guilt rather than genuine desire to want that baby. I know it's hard for many who are quasi anti-adoption to fathom this.
If you re-read your post, you will see that you indeed made a difference btwn your biological child and your adopted child. "Loving" both children does not mean you are going to parent them equally. Making a statement such as yours along the lines of not hesitating to give your adopted daughter back to her "first parents" in a heartbeat is not something I would call "equal parenting." A parent fights for his/her children and would never hand over their child because it made them feel better.
We get that adopted infants have birthparents, the difference with you is that you apparently believe that gives them 100 percent access, indefinitely, to the child they choose to have parented by APs. I don't agree with this.
I am adopting a child to build my family; for life - better or worse. It is a lifetime commitment that I don't take lightly and that I am not making to alleviate someone else's life or to "cure" my infertility. It is not a medical treatment or a social cause for me or my husband.
Now do you understand why we feel you need therapy?
Oh goodness, I must stop reading these boards when I'm holding my sleeping daughter. My laughter almost woke her up.
Your posts really amuse me. Truly. You manage to read something, then totally twist it all around and insert meaning into it that I really believe 99% of other people would not do.
I don't need to prove my love for my either of my children to a stranger on the Internet. You don't know anything at all about domestic infant adoption. Clearly. And if you are the one who think I need therapy... lol. (By the way, you have a habit if telling people they need therapy because they dare to have a different, ie, wrong, viewpoint from yours.) You also don't know anything at all about why my husband and I adopted. It certainly wasn't put of guilt or necessity. (I am shaking my head at this one in laughter because I have no idea how you could have so massively twisted my words into assuming this one! )
You said "ask any parent of a biological child and adopted child" then you made a statement on how those people parent. I am gathering you have no biological children, so you are speaking for a group you do not have experience with. You supposed wrong in my case. You apparently are right in Sheena's, but we parent very differently, and not just in regards to how we handle adoption.
There are many adoptive families who have healthy, open relationships with their child's first parents (yes, the term I prefer to use and which is more acceptable to many birth mothers. There's certainly nothing wrong with respecting people- it's not a trait that requires professional help, although the lack of it certainly does.) it's called open adoption, and it is practiced by many people, including those who adopt from foster care, btw. If a parent relinquishes a child for adoption (as opposed to termination of their rights, something DSS tries to do various circumstances), in states supporting legal contact after adoption rights, these parents can have contact with their child after adoption. Do those adoptive parents also need therapy? Do all adoptive parents who have contact with their child's first parents need therapy, or just me in particular? We have a legal agreement with our daughter's first parents. Now, granted, we would have the same relationship with them anyway, and these legal agreements aren't easily enforceable, which is another whole other topic, but still. It's a legal agreement between us outlining our openness. That was filed as part of our adoption paperwork, and it was their legal right in our state to have that included. Does every adoptive parent who upholds their legal contact after adoption agreement require counseling?
What you don't understand is our inclusiveness. We see it as not limiting the people who love our daughter. We don't view love as finite. There is no earthly good reason why we would not have a relationship with our daughter's other parents. Again, you don't want this kind of relationship if you adopt. Fine. We consciously chose and wanted it because we believed any child we adopted had a right to know their biological roots. We actively chose not to adopt internationally for the same reasons many choose to adopt internationally. So of course there will be vastly differing viewpoints.
Individuals should be treated as individuals. As I said already, this applies to bio children and adopted children. My two children are not identical, and I do not treat then as copies of one another. I parent them differently as a result. My parents did the sane with me and my siblings. We have our own personalities, emotions, ways of interacting, etc. my daughter's have inherent differences and that's just fact. My adopted child has an added element in her life that we need to address. I don't plan to pretend like it doesn't exist. So unless you are advocating I do that, then I have no idea why you are hung up on this. I don't personally know any parent IRL who treats all their children as identical instead of as individuals.
I do heartily encourage you to understand what you speak of at least a little bit before you start insulting adoptive parents and saying they need therapy. So, maybe do some research on domestic adoption and open adoption. You will find that although there are APs who do not have contact or have closed contact after initially having openess (a whole different topic), there are a lot of us who find that although we entered openness for the sake of our child, we ended up discovering the richness that comes from adding love into your life. My daughter's first parents have become family. I feel very sorry for you if you think love is cause for therapy.
I don't expect any of this to change your mind, and that's not my goal in life. But stop inserting words, feelings, and beliefs into my mouth that I never wrote. It's mildly annoying.
With all due respect susankate, can you please let her answer for herself.
Yes she did. It may have been on one of the other Adoption threads here, but she said this.
Nope. I didn't. Please find my quote. You tend to twist things, so i have no doubt you are again here.
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Let me try to explain...
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