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What you should stop doing is trying to silence adoptees. What you should be doing is stop dismissing the feelings and opinions of adult adoptees. Stop calling them bitter or toxic or whatever just because you don't like their opinions.
And to be really honest, really, really honest, I don't care how YOU feel about adoption. I think adoption should exist as an institution with regard to what is best for adoptees. Yet, you and many of the other APs seem to care about what adoption does for YOU, for how YOU feel about adoption.
The entire post above is about YOU and YOUR feelings, and not at all about acknowledging the feelings of your children. Look at the post above if you want clear evidence of why so many of us see this.
Again, you have skirted the issue on how adoption is all about me? I'm expressing how I feel about adoption just as you are expressing yours. You also have skirted answering my fundamental question to you--- How am I not acknowledging the feelings of my children? What should I be doing differently? What you quoted and bolded in my earlier post with the "me's" and "I's" bolded was really a question to you---one that you haven't answered.
I will keep this short and await the answer to my question.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 12-05-2012 at 09:18 PM..
Of course Tiff finds joy in being a parent, and I would also say if she didn't have joy in being a parent , she would not be taking the time to hear opinions from the wide spectrum of adult adoptees out there - from those who have never been curious, to those who would want medical history, to those who felt the loss early in life, to those who realized the loss after the birth of their first child, or when someone dear to them like a parent passed on. We are all unique and fall both within the bell curve and outliers on either side. Understanding what could trigger sad feelings, or the feelings that have caused them problems makes parents more aware and open to any type of feelings their child may experience. It is certainly easier to walk the path with someone than alone.
I understand and applaud a parent who would want to hear from all sides - not because I am in their situation, but because when I started volunteering to patients who have had the same events I had - I wanted to know how others felt - not just my feelings - so I could be there for the new patients with a wider scope that just how I felt and other ways to help them walk through it - hope that made sense.
Thank you. This was really nice to read. Nothing is more important to me than being the best mom I can be to my daughters. For my daughter who is adopted, I feel that this includes being completely open to however she may feel about her adoption- good, bad, indifferent, or a combination of all three depending on her age or what is going on in her life. Listening to other adoptees and first moms who can speak to the experiences of their children is critical, I think, to achieve this understanding.
I think my daughter's first parents were meant to find my husband and I. They were not able to keep her, which is sad because I think they would have been wonderful parents. But in the absence of being able to stay with her original family, I believe we are the best possible second choice for her. Being chosen to be her mom is a really humbling thing, and I take it really, really seriously.
Our opinions on a location or issue are just that, opinions. Highly subjective. Personal preferences. Quirks, even. Leave wiggle room for dialogue, others may not see things the same as you, or been there as long as you, and any one of us can be wrong. Pouncing on someone you disagree with runs contrary to the spirit of this board and its members. We are here to help each other.
and
Quote:
Be civil, no personal attacks, flaming, or insults. We may attack ideas (politely) but we do not attack the speaker of the idea. Be careful with your words, there is a point where being direct crosses a line into blunt, in-your-face hostility. Please, report bad posts instead of engaging in flame wars on the boards. Insulting another member or a moderator will not be tolerated anywhere on this website.
And not from the TOS, but an important reminder anyway:
"Please discuss the topic -- NOT each other."
If you simply MUST snipe at each other, do it via DM and keep it off the open forum.
Thanks!
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 12-05-2012 at 09:32 PM..
Again, you have skirted the issue on how adoption is all about me? I'm expressing how I feel about adoption just as you are expressing yours. You also have skirted answering my fundamental question to you--- How am I not acknowledging the feelings of my children? What should I be doing differently? What you quoted and bolded in my earlier post with the "me's" and "I's" bolded was really a question to you---one that you haven't answered.
I will keep this short and await the answer to my question.
Parenthood - is not a charity event. Yes! In part it is about PARENTS HAVING CHILDREN! There is nothing new about this. When biological parents became parents, they were not thinking of saving the world. They were thinking about raising a child. And bestowing their values, attitudes, taste, resources on that child. Good parents are giving and give of themselves, that is a given.
No one becomes pregnant or begins to adopt because they want to "help someone else".
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 12-10-2012 at 04:14 PM..
Of course at the root of every adoption is something very sad. I get that, I really do. So do most adoptive parents I would suspect. So how am I not acknowledging that fact? Please elaborate. Should I be wallowing in tears every day thinking about the tragedy of their broken families? Should I dwelling on this sad fact, pull my hair and knash my teeth? Should I be dwelling on this sad fact with my children every day? What would you have adoptive parents do? Their adoption day happens to fall on my birthday. Should I not acknowledge how grateful we are to have them in our lives? I often tell my kids that they are the best thing that has happened in our lives. They are a true blessing to us. Is that wrong? I would appreciate an honest answer from you.
Finally, you keep repeating that I'm calling you a liar in many of your responses to my posts. How is that? I think that you have some very strong opinions which I violenty disagree with however I don't think you are a liar per se. You have your very strong opinion just as I have mine. I do think that you have an extremely sour opinion of adoptive families and look at each adoption with great suspicion and unease. That to me is sad.
No. You should be happy that you have children and that you are a good mother!
Parenthood - is not a charity event. Yes! In part it is about PARENTS HAVING CHILDREN! There is nothing new about this. When biological parents became parents, they were not thinking of saving the world. They were thinking about raising a child. And bestowing their values, attitudes, taste, resources on that child. Good parents are giving and give of themselves, that is a given.
No one becomes pregnant or begins to adopt because they want to "help someone else".
Any time a PARENT by ADOPTION uses a personal pronoun on this forum, the personal pronouns are embolded and we are castigated and told that it is all about us.
This has become a way to mock and attempt to discredit everything written by a parent by adoption.
In regards to this comment:
This has become a way to mock and attempt to discredit everything written by a parent by adoption
I say "Rubbish".
It seems to me that you are deliberately and wilfully misunderstanding what we are trying to say.
I and others have made it quite clear that I believe the reason for adoption to exist AS AN ENTITY and the PERSONAL reasons why people adopt ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
Thus, there is NOTHING WRONG with an adoptive parents wanting to raise a child to adulthood. In fact, one would hope that is the PERSONAL reason they wish to adopt. So NONE of us have a problem with you wanting to adopt because you wish to raise a child to adulthood.
However, the actual ENTITY OF ADOPTION should ONLY be for finding homes for children who NEED them.
The fact that there are many people who wish to raise a child to adulthood means that there is a very large resource pool available for those children who NEED homes. It is always good to know that if a child NEEDS a home, there are many people willing to provide one.
However, in domestic adoption, there are organisation like the NCFA that have counselling programs for women designed purely to separate them from their child by telling them that it is what THEIR UNBORN CHILD would want. This is what a lot of people don't realise about these counselling programs - they aren't telling women that THEY would have a better life WITHOUT their child, they are being told that THEIR CHILD would have a better life WITHOUT them. Many time, the women who are most susceptible to this type of counselling are those who are really concerned about how they are going to care for a child. Decent counselling would involve getting a woman to a place where she can truly make a decision, not try to get her at her most vulnerable moment. Of course, not all birthmoms are victims of this type of counselling but many are and many of them don't even realise it until years down the track. Many people think I consider agencies to be coercive but the coercion is often already done. However, this is why I feel agencies dealing with those who are considering adoption should not be ADOPTION agencies per se but COMMUNITY SERVICE AGENCIES in which adoption is a mere service rather than a reason d'etre.
Thus, in summary, I DO personally HAVE A PROBLEM with those that feel that adoption should EXIST AS AN ENTITY to provide children for couples who want them, however, I have no problems with those whose PERSONAL reasons for adopting is because they want a child, AS LONG AS THAT PERSON UNDERSTANDS THAT THE ENTITY OF ADOPTION ITSELF MUST BE FOR PROVIDING HOMES TO CHILDREN WHO NEED THEM. I find it hard to believe that you can't delineate between PERSONAL reasons for adoption and reasons for adoption to exist AS AN ENTITY - they are two different things.
Last edited by susankate; 12-10-2012 at 04:37 PM..
I rarely read or post in the Adoption forum. We adopted an infant with Down syndrome over 26 years ago but were involved with the adoption "maze" for several years. I have gotten the feeling with the few posts that I have read that some adoptees feel that if not for parents seeking to adopt children that their birthparents would have kept them and raised them? Or that the adoptive parents and agencies/lawyers pressured/tricked the birthparents into allowing the adoption? As an adoptive parent, I find this offensive. We only dealt with public and private agencies and only private agencies when we learned that all of those "Children of the week" were virtually impossible to adopt. I do understand that a child would want to understand why they were put up for adoption and that only the birthparents really know that information but arriving 20 years or more later to have a face off with a parent that relinquished you, well, it does sort of put the birthparent on the spot and looking back 20 years or more, we often don't realize, even with the biggest decisions, why we made them and there are many that we regret. In the US, there is a support system, public assistance but deciding to keep a child and go into that system where often, it becomes a trap, is a difficult one. I notice now that we moved to a college town, the yellow pages are filled with agencies across the US looking to "recruit" birthmothers looking to relinquish their babies. I do applaud all mothers who choose not to have an abortion as they have my greatest respect and I can't imagine how difficult it would be and how much pressure one would be under when pregnant without a lot of options and being pressured by parents, other relatives, friends, etc. to do the "right" thing with everyone having an opinion as to what the "right" thing would be. I think with the end of orphanages in the US that people stop realizing how many homeless children there are and if those potential adoptive parents disappeared completely, there would be a lot more homeless children, children in foster care where they are here today, somewhere else tomorrow. I just don't think that adoptive parents are the bad guys that some adoptees want to make them out to be.
In the past, kids were actually sent to orphanages when their mothers didn't choose or couldn't choose to raise them.
And very often there were informal adoptions where babies were simply handed over to family members who may not have actually wanted a child, sometimes a family with lots of kids was expected to just take on one more -- like it or not.
This has become a way to mock and attempt to discredit everything written by a parent by adoption
I say "Rubbish".
It seems to me that you are deliberately and wilfully misunderstanding what we are trying to say.
I and others have made it quite clear that I believe the reason for adoption to exist AS AN ENTITY and the PERSONAL reasons why people adopt ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
Thus, there is NOTHING WRONG with an adoptive parents wanting to raise a child to adulthood. In fact, one would hope that is the PERSONAL reason they wish to adopt. So NONE of us have a problem with you wanting to adopt because you wish to raise a child to adulthood.
However, the actual ENTITY OF ADOPTION should ONLY be for finding homes for children who NEED them.
The fact that there are many people who wish to raise a child to adulthood means that there is a very large resource pool available for those children who NEED homes. It is always good to know that if a child NEEDS a home, there are many people willing to provide one.
However, in domestic adoption, there are organisation like the NCFA that have counselling programs for women designed purely to separate them from their child by telling them that it is what THEIR UNBORN CHILD would want. This is what a lot of people don't realise about these counselling programs - they aren't telling women that THEY would have a better life WITHOUT their child, they are being told that THEIR CHILD would have a better life WITHOUT them. Many time, the women who are most susceptible to this type of counselling are those who are really concerned about how they are going to care for a child. Decent counselling would involve getting a woman to a place where she can truly make a decision, not try to get her at her most vulnerable moment. Of course, not all birthmoms are victims of this type of counselling but many are and many of them don't even realise it until years down the track. Many people think I consider agencies to be coercive but the coercion is often already done. However, this is why I feel agencies dealing with those who are considering adoption should not be ADOPTION agencies per se but COMMUNITY SERVICE AGENCIES in which adoption is a mere service rather than a reason d'etre.
Thus, in summary, I DO personally HAVE A PROBLEM with those that feel that adoption should EXIST AS AN ENTITY to provide children for couples who want them, however, I have no problems with those whose PERSONAL reasons for adopting is because they want a child, AS LONG AS THAT PERSON UNDERSTANDS THAT THE ENTITY OF ADOPTION ITSELF MUST BE FOR PROVIDING HOMES TO CHILDREN WHO NEED THEM. I find it hard to believe that you can't delineate between PERSONAL reasons for adoption and reasons for adoption to exist AS AN ENTITY - they are two different things.
The problem with that -- adoption would be like foster homes. The state would determine that a child needs to be placed and would place them.
A couple who truly desires to have a child is more likely going to provide the most welcoming home to a child than someone expected to take in a child that they didn't necessarily want to raise.
Parenthood - is not a charity event. Yes! In part it is about PARENTS HAVING CHILDREN! There is nothing new about this. When biological parents became parents, they were not thinking of saving the world. They were thinking about raising a child. And bestowing their values, attitudes, taste, resources on that child. Good parents are giving and give of themselves, that is a given.
No one becomes pregnant or begins to adopt because they want to "help someone else".
I grew up grateful for adoption --- because many of my best cousins were adopted --- growing up without them would not have been the same, I am glad they were in my family, lots of good times and lots of fun childhood memories. Those memories include camping and the whole family sitting around the campfire, horsebackriding, picnics and long afternoons at the lake where we'd go boating and waterskiing.
My grandmother wasn't raised by her birth mother or by adoption parents and for her childhood was kind of sad and lonely because she was given to an older aunt who provided her a home but she never felt she was really wanted. Another aunt suspects she was "dumped" on relatives, she said she never felt really a part of the large family she believes she was given to for them to raise her. She said it was common in those days if a woman couldn't raise a child for whatever reason to just squeeze them into an already large family maybe already overly burdened.
I always saw that adoption by people who yearned for a child was a good choice for a birth mother for her baby, instead of having to convince someone to take the child or else take the child to an orphanage, the mother could instead choose to have her child grow up in a family. As hard as that decision might sometimes be, how much better to know someone very much wants a baby, not reluctantly agrees to care for the child because they're coerced by family "duties", and far better than an orphanage at least in most cases.
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This was really nice to read. Nothing is more important to me than being the best mom I can be to my daughters. For my daughter who is adopted, I feel that this includes being completely open to however she may feel about her adoption- good, bad, indifferent, or a combination of all three depending on her age or what is going on in her life. Listening to other adoptees and first moms who can speak to the experiences of their children is critical, I think, to achieve this understanding.
