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Old 12-18-2012, 01:45 PM
 
509 posts, read 483,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
That's not a bad idea Tiffjoy if the need arose. A central reporting group is a good idea. In an open adoption, of course the filing should be mandatory. In a closed one, would this be an optional thing or mandatory for the adoptee parent? Would there be a certain window in which to file? If an adoptee parent didn't file, what are the consequences? I can't imagine losing a child, not filing within 30 days, and then being taken to court for example (just throwing out a hypothetical example). This would have to be carefully established and monitored.
Sorry Linmora, I didn't see this.

I believe the need is already there. Once children become adults, if they desire to search for their first parents, that should be their choice and decision. Unfortunately, some adoption agencies have been less than revealing with giving out information to adoptees. Or they don't have the info. Or it was lost.

This is a really good example:

The Declassified Adoptee: A Letter to my Post-Adoption Social Worker

And

The Declassified Adoptee: My Post-Adoption Social Worker Responds (and Here's What I Said)

A central reporting/collecting agency that holds all the pertinent info for the adoption would be invaluable to adoptees. To be clear, this in no way would force reunion on anyone who didn't want it. Anyone who was the victim of abuse would not be subjected to having to contact their first family in order to obtain important medical info.

When we completed our adoption, we were required to submit the court paperwork back to our adoption agency to file with DSS. I see no reason why as part of adoption, there can't be additional paperwork filed with further information. If the first parents at some point had further info to add, like an updated contact address or new medical info, they could. The adoptive parents could also keep their info updated. Of course, we cannot compel anyone to submit further information once the adoption has been fully finalized, but even having the possibility to do so would be very welcome. And this would also be the place adoptees would go to first when they decided they wanted to pursue reunion. It wouldn't cost any money (or perhaps just a minor, like $25, fee to have the file sent) to get the info.

As for notifying in the case of death, again, that would simply be filed with the death certificate in the file. I'm sure a way could be determined, in our age of technology, to connect files. If not, then yes, it would in part rely upon the goodwill of the adoptive parents in keeping this updated.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: New York State, USA
142 posts, read 211,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntieannie68 View Post
the birth mother certainly did give you a gift--she could have chosen abortion ,street abandonment,etc---she chose LIFE--i pray your hostility towards your child's birth mother is not a source of a rift between you two later
Wow. I'm glad someone else sees the hostility expressed toward the birth mother. You are right, such hostility could be trouble later on. A better approach would be to embrace the facts of life and settle down into parent-child relationship building.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:06 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
Of course not every adopted person shares this interest -- we're all unique, just like non-adopted people.

But people often change as they mature, and your daughter may one day decide she DOES want to explore her roots. Are you willing to admit that?

I agree. People are people. Adopted or not. I am very consistent when it comes to family on other forums.

For example the Vegetarian forum, which you also moderate. We do not stand for abusive people in our lives, Blood related or not.

However, to listen to some of these adopted posters, ALL ADOPTED people feel this. And if they don't they are repressing it, or they are being held back from this normal interest by oppresive adoptive parents.

I can accept that for some it's important. Can THEY accept that for any it is not?

Can they accept that some adopted people actually live in fear or all of these reunions or of being searched?

I knew 2 girls from High School who became pregnant by accident. They live in fear of being searched.
One did not tell her husband. Not something I agree with but, she chose this. Both moved thousands of miles away from our home town. They went on to have children.

I also know of a cohort group of people adopted around the same time that we did. They are in their mid to late teens now. Their feeling range from ambivalent to disgusted when they think of meeting thr woman who gave birth to them. None obsess about family diseases.

They are happy with their families and do not want to add drama - or relatives - to their lives.

I will admit that there are HAPPY and well adjusted people who have these interests.

Also, there seem to be people who just did not connect with their adoptive parents or who were adopted by very old parents who passed and in those cases, I can really understand this interest.

But I NEVER hear any understanding about the other position from people on this board who disagree.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:31 PM
 
393 posts, read 503,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I agree. People are people. Adopted or not. I am very consistent when it comes to family on other forums.

For example the Vegetarian forum, which you also moderate. We do not stand for abusive people in our lives, Blood related or not.

However, to listen to some of these adopted posters, ALL ADOPTED people feel this. And if they don't they are repressing it, or they are being held back from this normal interest by oppresive adoptive parents.

I can accept that for some it's important. Can THEY accept that for any it is not?

Can they accept that some adopted people actually live in fear or all of these reunions or of being searched?

I knew 2 girls from High School who became pregnant by accident. They live in fear of being searched.
One did not tell her husband. Not something I agree with but, she chose this. Both moved thousands of miles away from our home town. They went on to have children.

I also know of a cohort group of people adopted around the same time that we did. They are in their mid to late teens now. Their feeling range from ambivalent to disgusted when they think of meeting thr woman who gave birth to them. None obsess about family diseases.

They are happy with their families and do not want to add drama - or relatives - to their lives.

I will admit that there are HAPPY and well adjusted people who have these interests.

Also, there seem to be people who just did not connect with their adoptive parents or who were adopted by very old parents who passed and in those cases, I can really understand this interest.

But I NEVER hear any understanding about the other position from people on this board who disagree.
Sheena,

For the last time...read Dark's post you just quoted. That is the same explanation the other adoptees on this site provide, time, after time, after time - but you don't hear it. It is tiring. Some do, some don't, some never, some do later on...it falls under the concept of growing up, gaining maturity, lived experiences such as giving birth, getting married, experiencing another loss, and sometimes that loss is a parent, some when their own grandchildren are born decide they need to search.

It's REALLY easy to obsess about genetic diseases - when you are in hospital and you have specialist after specialist visiting you, ordering tests, drawing blood for genetic tests, and trying to ensure you don't die...
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:54 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 14,116,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I also know of a cohort group of people adopted around the same time that we did. They are in their mid to late teens now. Their feeling range from ambivalent to disgusted when they think of meeting thr woman who gave birth to them. None obsess about family diseases.
Very FEW teenagers -- adopted or otherwise -- obsess about family diseases. They're immortal, dontcha know?
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
Very FEW teenagers -- adopted or otherwise -- obsess about family diseases. They're immortal, dontcha know?
Touche
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:13 PM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,855,795 times
Reputation: 1462
[quote=sheena12;27445353]I agree. People are people. Adopted or not. I am very consistent when it comes to family on other forums.

For example the Vegetarian forum, which you also moderate. We do not stand for abusive people in our lives, Blood related or not.

However, to listen to some of these adopted posters, ALL ADOPTED people feel this.

Rubbish. The majority of adoptees on here have made it quite clear that we are all different.

And if they don't they are repressing it, or they are being held back from this normal interest by oppresive adoptive parents.

Not at all. It is more that we are saying that adoptive parents do need to make sure that they aren't affecting their child's decision. That is a general statement that is good adoptive practice. If the adoptive parents know they have done the right thing and been unbiased in their views, then well and good, that is what we adoptees want to see - we then couldn't care less if our adoptee wishes to meet their bfamily or not.

In fact, as an adoptee, I do understand not wanting to know. Birth parents in a closed adoption are abstract concepts and thus it is fully understandable that a person may not want to know more. Another point is also that many adoptees do have varying degrees of interest through their life - a point that Dark is trying to make. For example, I was interested in my 20s, too scared to make contact, then went on and lived life without really thinking about adoption and when the internet came about, I searched out of boredom and found something straight away. So, yes, I can see both sides. I also see that adoptees are human beings who, like the majority of humans, can change their minds and have different opinions throughout their life.

I can accept that for some it's important. Can THEY accept that for any it is not?

If you actually read the posts of the majority of adoptees on here, you will in fact see that we do accept that.

Can they accept that some adopted people actually live in fear or all of these reunions or of being searched?

Of course we understand that. However, good adoptive parents would try to give their children realistic outlooks of all situations and would try to ascertain the best way of dealing with feelings. If I were an adoptive parent, I wouldn't want my child "living in fear".

Actually, I had mixed feelings about contacted - in one way, I did want contact, in another I was scared of contact - because as stated above, my bmom was an abstract concept. However, I can't say I was "living in fear" perhaps because I never thought of my "birth people" as boogeymen.

Other adoptees may have different feelings.

I knew 2 girls from High School who became pregnant by accident. They live in fear of being searched.
One did not tell her husband. Not something I agree with but, she chose this. Both moved thousands of miles away from our home town. They went on to have children.

The above does show why it is very important for women considering adoption to get proper counselling whether they place their child or not. They need help to come to terms with their pregnancies whatever decision they make. In the past, their shame and their fears were exploited rather than eased and thus the women continued to live in fear throughout their lives. Very sad. The better agencies from today would try to make sure that a woman isn't making her decision out of fear. Btw I live and was born in countries that are "open" and in some ways this can be better for those bparents living in fear, because 1) they can put a contact veto on and 2) education about possible reunion outcomes can be controlled by including information or having counselling at the time of the adoptee receiving their birth certificate.

I also know of a cohort group of people adopted around the same time that we did. They are in their mid to late teens now. Their feeling range from ambivalent to disgusted when they think of meeting thr woman who gave birth to them. None obsess about family diseases.

Ambivalent is normal. Disgusted sounds a bit extreme, though that might depend on their biological history, eg if they were from an abusive background. one might understand that reaction. If they know nothing about their background or their bparents are average people and still feel disgusted about meeting biological relatives, I would consider that a bit odd. However, that is just because I am a person who doesn't normally consider it disgusting to meet normal people, but each to their own.

Did your "cohort group of people" who adopted around the time you did, adopt internationally? Are they part of your "Birth mother is too respectful a term for those birth women who gave birth to our children" group?

None obsess about family diseases.

Hey, perhaps some people "obsess about family diseases" because they might have almost DIED or been permanently affected from not having that knowledge - ever thought of that?

They are happy with their families and do not want to add drama - or relatives - to their lives.

I am happy with my family too. I personally did want to add extra relatives to my life. There was no drama in my doing that as they are perfectly nice people, I haven't been disgusted by a single one of them.

I will admit that there are HAPPY and well adjusted people who have these interests.

Yes, there most certainly are. The majority of adoptees on this board are happy and well adjusted people.

Also, there seem to be people who just did not connect with their adoptive parents or who were adopted by very old parents who passed and in those cases, I can really understand this interest.

Perhaps one day you will learn to understand that people who love their adoptive parents can be interested in meeting biological family for normal reasons. As Dark said above, we are ALL different. Some people do want to meet bparents, some people don't - each to their own. I understand those that do and I understand those that don't.

But I NEVER hear any understanding about the other position from people on this board who disagree.

That isn't true. When you posted about infertility, the majority of adoptees on here made it quite clear how sympathetic we are those suffering from infertility (after all our parents did).


Sometimes we do try to make efforts and you just glide right over it. For example, in the bit about birth certificates on another thread, you did make a good point about adoptees not wanting their certificates to look different to others and that is something I do understand and thus, my version of what I felt would be a good alternative.

However, there are other times I am not going to "understand" your points of view - eg when you post things about how no-one under 21 should be parents.

Just a though, you need to take the plank out of your own eye before you tell us to take the speck out of our own. I have yet to ever see you try to understand our point of view. You give the impression that the only good adoptee is an adoptee who considers their adoption to be a blessing. You seem to think that the only reason an adoptee might not consider adoption to be a blessing is because they hate their adoptive parents or that they are bitter and twisted individuals. I have found that many adoptees who don't consider their adoption to be a blessing have that view because they have separated their views re their parents (whom they may feel blessed to have as parents) from their actual adoption situation (they may not necessarily feel blessed that their bparents were in a position where they were between a rock and a hard place).

The truth is that many things in adoption are complicated and we should all understand that. I understand that that is the case for adoptive parents, try and see that that can also be the case for adoptees.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:51 PM
 
1,097 posts, read 1,727,503 times
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I've never met an adult adopted woman who was becoming or was a parent herself who did not think about what she was passing down to her children. Never. So yes, it's hard to understand.

I've also never met an adoptee of any age who was actually terrified their birth parents might try to contact them. I will grant they must exist, but it feels like that feeling must have been encouraged somehow; because instead of them taking for granted that their adoption was legally secure, somehow wild fears were allowed to persist.

As to birth mothers, I'm sorry - - this topic isn't about searching or reunion - it's about medical information. At a certian point you have 2 adults, one an adoptee and one their biological parent. 1 has 0 information about their genetic predisposition to anything. 1 has all the info about the other adult. I don't think any parent should hold that power over their adult son or daughter. Medical information doesn't = reunion. Despite acquired diseases - flu, ebola, whatever - - most people who have longstanding health problems suffer from conditions which are genetically indicated. Why force an adult adoptee to throw the dice if they don't have to?
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:19 PM
 
509 posts, read 483,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nj185 View Post
Why force an adult adoptee to throw the dice if they don't have to?
I'll take it one further- why force any adoptee, child or adult?

Medical info is critical to the health and well-being of any person. I see no reason why people who are adopted are less deserving of knowing this info. I do not see this as an issue for APs to debate whether they want their adopted child to have this info or not. This is something we should make happen as a part of the process because at a human, individual level, people who are adopted are no less deserving of the best medical care that can be provided than those who are not adopted and can get all their medical info easily.

This has nothing to do with reunion, with not wanting contact, or with searching.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:21 PM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,855,795 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by nj185 View Post
I've never met an adult adopted woman who was becoming or was a parent herself who did not think about what she was passing down to her children. Never. So yes, it's hard to understand.

I've also never met an adoptee of any age who was actually terrified their birth parents might try to contact them. I will grant they must exist, but it feels like that feeling must have been encouraged somehow; because instead of them taking for granted that their adoption was legally secure, somehow wild fears were allowed to persist.
Exactly.

Quote:

As to birth mothers, I'm sorry - - this topic isn't about searching or reunion - it's about medical information. At a certian point you have 2 adults, one an adoptee and one their biological parent. 1 has 0 information about their genetic predisposition to anything. 1 has all the info about the other adult. I don't think any parent should hold that power over their adult son or daughter. Medical information doesn't = reunion. Despite acquired diseases - flu, ebola, whatever - - most people who have longstanding health problems suffer from conditions which are genetically indicated. Why force an adult adoptee to throw the dice if they don't have to?
I don't get the impression that Sheena is particularly concerned about the bmother's privacy. She has said multiple times that she is more concerned about the adoptive parents' privacy. However, I do suspect that if the agency called re urgent medical information received from her daughter's bmom, she would certainly not ignore it.

As for Sheena's bmother friends that she mentioned in a previous post, if a CI did contact them about their child wanting contact but they didn't want contact, the level of contact is their choice but one might hope that they would at least be open to sharing medical history. I think adoptees are at least entitled to that. In my own situation, if my extended family hadn't wanted contact, I would have been OK with that but I still would have made sure that I found out why my bmom died at a young age as that is something that could affect my own health. Having said that, I suspect she mentioned those bmoms, not because she is concerned about their privacy but because she wants to point out to us adoptees "See, not every "birth person" wants contact".
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