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Old 12-21-2012, 01:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artful Dodger View Post
Craig,

Why do you say Canada makes it difficult? I don't see any major differences in stats. Canada has developed their own system that works for them, and abides by the treaties they have signed. I do find it bizarre that the US has been either their 2nd or 3rd top sending country to Canada in the last three years 2008, 2009, 2010.

Canadians go abroad to adopt 1,946 child... | Adoption Council of Canada
Adoption requirements vary considerably from province to province in Canada, especially in regard to international special needs adoptions.

Sorry, gotta run to the airport - no time for details, but look into it and you'll see what I mean. I would be delighted to see more Canadians adopting children who need families, regardless of the origins of those children (and yes, it does seem strange for US kids to be adopted by Canadians - I'd be interested in the reasons).
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
Adoption requirements vary considerably from province to province in Canada, especially in regard to international special needs adoptions.

Sorry, gotta run to the airport - no time for details, but look into it and you'll see what I mean. I would be delighted to see more Canadians adopting children who need families, regardless of the origins of those children (and yes, it does seem strange for US kids to be adopted by Canadians - I'd be interested in the reasons).
Yes, each Province has their own adoption authority. Canada has universal health care with a percentage of federal funds being transferred to each Province or Territory to help cover costs. Canada does not let people (young or old) immigrate who would unduly burden the system. I don't see anything wrong with that. Adoption is not the same as giving birth to a natural born citizen - it is a way to form a family - but when you go outside of the borders it falls under immigration rules.

Adoption from the US to Canada has been going on for decades - both foster care adoptions and domestic infant adoptions with it bieng primarily african american babies lately. Ireland was adopting from the US and other European countries as well - Ireland put a hold on it as they don't feel all the states are living up to the Hague requirements of being a sending country - you have to get approval to adopt from a specific state - Florida was the only one and that was stopped because of the practices of domestic infant adoption in the US contravene Hague requirements...

Sorry to take this off topic...
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,277 posts, read 5,172,495 times
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This bill will mean certain death for many orphans (particularly those with special needs.) It just disgusts me that they treat their children how they do, and then they go and do stuff like this. This is one reason why we are not adopting from Russia.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:37 PM
 
393 posts, read 505,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
I would be delighted to see more Canadians adopting children who need families, regardless of the origins of those children (and yes, it does seem strange for US kids to be adopted by Canadians - I'd be interested in the reasons).
Sorry - one more hijack...

Canada and the US seem to adopt about the same number of intercountry adoptees based on the countries population - US - 10,000 = Cdn - 1,000 - you look at the numbers - it isn't far off - some years the US adopts more per person - other years Canada adopts more per person.

Statistics | Intercountry Adoption
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
This bill will mean certain death for many orphans (particularly those with special needs.) It just disgusts me that they treat their children how they do, and then they go and do stuff like this. This is one reason why we are not adopting from Russia.

Wait...what???
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
Sorry, I can't cite the source, as I just did a quick current news search of "russia adoption", but I did read (somewhere!) that 19 children adopted from Russia had died in the US within the last ten years or so, whereas around 1,500 children adopted domestically in Russia had died. This was not broken down into deaths caused by illness, accident, or abuse or crime, but the comparison is remarkable. I also do not have figures for the numbers of children adopted in each country during this time frame, but expect they could be found. Obviously, such figures are needed to produce percentages...

It appears those of other nationalities may still be allowed to adopt from Russia. At present, many Italians adopt children from Eastern Europe (Ukraine in particular), as do Canadians, though Canada makes it difficult.

I hate to see cynical politicians grandstanding on the backs of helpless kids.

Nineteen Russian born adoptees were killed by their adoptive parents through either neglect or direct violence. NOT nineteen have died through illness, accidents, etc.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,277 posts, read 5,172,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adopteeWPD View Post
Wait...what???
What, what? It will mean certain death for many orphans. They are not given necessary medical treatment many times. They are often not given enough food or water. It's not a secret.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
Is that a (relatively) recent development? One of my former students was adopted from Romania, but she's 21(ish) now, so that was done at least 15 years ago. One of my current students was adopted from Bulgaria, as was her older brother -- they are, I believe, 14 and 17 years old.
Yes.

My friend could explain it much more appropriately than I can. It's a bad time for me to call her now (kids bedtime) but I will try to call her this weekend and ask her to explain it to me again. I could google, but she's a first person source I trust more. She's been involved with Romania for over ten years now, and started her own non profit there. She lived there for 6 months, and goes back twice a year. She's developed a host of connections and really understands the issues. And, she has a deep love for the people and the country, even to teaching her kids (not Romanian) the language and taking one with her on the last two visits.

So. There was some complication with Romania's inclusion into the European Union and their extensive use if hospitals to house children. The children suffer greatly, and this was something flagged as an issue. Romania wanted to appear as though they could take care of their own children, so international adoption became next to impossible. They started moving children into group homes. In some cases, this had very positive effects. But there was not enough homes. Many children have just been shuffled, and any medical issue, no matter how small, is seen as a reason to explain why that child is in a hospital.

My friend's non profit has supplied one hospital floor, and in bad years, two or three, with basic necessities. I'm talking diapers, blankets, clothes- stuff you would assume the babies would have. But they don't. Before my friend, babies sat in dirty diapers for days, otherwise naked. The problem with Romania is too much to explain in a simplistic post. It's political. It's social. It's economical.

I am not a proponent of adoption at all costs (I think my posts have illustrated I take a conservative stance on adoption and prefer family preservation if possible). But the situation in Romania is dire. I often shed tears after one of my friend's updates after her visits. It absolutely breaks my heart that these children are languishing in a hospital. They spend most of their day in cribs. Recently, a new ward administrator started. She has allowed my friend to continue her non profit there, but she has removed all the toys (swings, walkers, bouncers) my friend provided for the children over the years. All the bright stickers and pictures on the walls were removed. The crib items like mobiles and bright bumpers have been removed. She believes these things spread germs. My friend is heartbroken at this development, but says it's a common attitude. The woman is trying her best, but she doesn't realize the issues caused by the lack of stimulation far outweigh any germ issue.

I'm in a tangent here. I'm sorry. My point is that for many if these children in Eastern Europe, there is no hope without adoption. Until their society makes great strides in how they view orphans, abandoned children, and children with even simple medical issues (let alone severe ones), there is no hope for these kids in their own country. I am 100% for ethical adoptions. I take no issue with ate tier regulations. But I'm
Saddened to see Russia close completely. I have been hoping Romania would open because we would adopt a child from my friend's hospital, but with Russia closing, I see evened chance Romania will change now.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:23 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 14,154,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffjoy View Post
Yes.

My friend could explain it much more appropriately than I can. It's a bad time for me to call her now (kids bedtime) but I will try to call her this weekend and ask her to explain it to me again.
Oh thanks, but it's really not that important (and I've taken the thread far enough off topic as it is).
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:25 PM
 
509 posts, read 484,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
Oh thanks, but it's really not that important (and I've taken the thread far enough off topic as it is).
I can DM if you'd like.
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