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Is it not possible to feel gratitude without it being a burden? I am not referring to those pitiful excuses who hammer away at others, regardless of circumstances, about how the other individual should be grateful because (fill in the blank), but realistically, it seems to me that there are many, many times and occasions throughout life in which gratitude can (and probably should) be acknowledged without it being a burden, or without painting one party as a rescuer or the other as one in need of saving. Someone helps, that help is acknowledged and appreciated - and life goes on.
I am grateful that I have a loving, caring family. I am grateful that I have good, supportive friends. I am grateful that I was hired for what was my dream job for a long time, many years ago. I am grateful that my relatives adopted internationally, and that their children are thriving. I freely acknowledge these things, and many others made possible by a variety of other people, without feeling "burdened" by gratitude. My life would be impoverished and much less pleasant without these people. I'd like to think that the people about whom I care and whom I've assisted also appreciate it, but it's certainly not necessary or desirable for them - or me - to harp away on it.
That said, I can see why people who experienced mismatched adoptions (I include a lot in "mismatched", and am using this term as a shortcut) would resent others telling them how appreciative they ought to be to be adopted. But I don't see this scenario at all in this video, which, was created to highlight the success of one individual family with many adopted kids who have special needs, and to encourage others to consider special needs adoption. In regard to gratitude, if anything, the comments of these parents seem to express their own gratitude at finding and being able to parent their clearly much-loved children. I see no evidence whatsoever that these parents expect overwhelming "gratitude" for having adopted them from their children, or that they expect public kudos.
It is unrealistic to expect a six-minute video to include in-depth interviews with all of the members of this large family, or to go into great detail about their personalities.
It appears to me that those who are critical of this video and this family may well be projecting their own unsatisfactory experiences, and thus may be missing both the nuances and the realities of this particular situation. I'd suggest that anyone experiencing triggering take a very close, very honest look at what they think their triggers are, and make sure they're not viewing these issues in absolute, black and white terms - and then try watching the video once again (from a "neutral" position - make sure you are not tired, hungry, thirsty, in physical or emotional pain at the time of watching, and be as objective as possible, without preconceived opinions of one kind or another) and see if those visceral reactions might not change.
I'd also suggest that any triggering produced by watching this video is worth closer examination, perhaps with professional assistance, in order to reach acceptance of the unchangeable past, and to help lay the groundwork for a happier present and future.
Is it not possible to feel gratitude without it being a burden? I am not referring to those pitiful excuses who hammer away at others, regardless of circumstances, about how the other individual should be grateful because (fill in the blank), but realistically, it seems to me that there are many, many times and occasions throughout life in which gratitude can (and probably should) be acknowledged without it being a burden, or without painting one party as a rescuer or the other as one in need of saving. Someone helps, that help is acknowledged and appreciated - and life goes on.
I am grateful that I have a loving, caring family. I am grateful that I have good, supportive friends. I am grateful that I was hired for what was my dream job for a long time, many years ago. I am grateful that my relatives adopted internationally, and that their children are thriving. I freely acknowledge these things, and many others made possible by a variety of other people, without feeling "burdened" by gratitude. My life would be impoverished and much less pleasant without these people. I'd like to think that the people about whom I care and whom I've assisted also appreciate it, but it's certainly not necessary or desirable for them - or me - to harp away on it.
That said, I can see why people who experienced mismatched adoptions (I include a lot in "mismatched", and am using this term as a shortcut) would resent others telling them how appreciative they ought to be to be adopted. But I don't see this scenario at all in this video, which, was created to highlight the success of one individual family with many adopted kids who have special needs, and to encourage others to consider special needs adoption. In regard to gratitude, if anything, the comments of these parents seem to express their own gratitude at finding and being able to parent their clearly much-loved children. I see no evidence whatsoever that these parents expect overwhelming "gratitude" for having adopted them from their children, or that they expect public kudos.
It is unrealistic to expect a six-minute video to include in-depth interviews with all of the members of this large family, or to go into great detail about their personalities.
It appears to me that those who are critical of this video and this family may well be projecting their own unsatisfactory experiences, and thus may be missing both the nuances and the realities of this particular situation. I'd suggest that anyone experiencing triggering take a very close, very honest look at what they think their triggers are, and make sure they're not viewing these issues in absolute, black and white terms - and then try watching the video once again (from a "neutral" position - make sure you are not tired, hungry, thirsty, in physical or emotional pain at the time of watching, and be as objective as possible, without preconceived opinions of one kind or another) and see if those visceral reactions might not change.
I'd also suggest that any triggering produced by watching this video is worth closer examination, perhaps with professional assistance, in order to reach acceptance of the unchangeable past, and to help lay the groundwork for a happier present and future.
That is how it seems to me me too Craig. That people are projecting. their own dissatisfaction about their own adoption(s) onto this sweet video.
It's sad that they can not separate their own experiences onto this video. Shame on them!
"Their own dissatisfaction about their own adoptions"?
And "Shame on them!"?
You assume too much and have never asked about my adoption, nor do I believe I have ever shared anything about it with anyone here, much less noted I had any dissatisfaction with my adoption.
Is it not possible to feel gratitude without it being a burden? I am not referring to those pitiful excuses who hammer away at others, regardless of circumstances, about how the other individual should be grateful because (fill in the blank), but realistically, it seems to me that there are many, many times and occasions throughout life in which gratitude can (and probably should) be acknowledged without it being a burden, or without painting one party as a rescuer or the other as one in need of saving. Someone helps, that help is acknowledged and appreciated - and life goes on.
I am grateful that I have a loving, caring family. I am grateful that I have good, supportive friends. I am grateful that I was hired for what was my dream job for a long time, many years ago. I am grateful that my relatives adopted internationally, and that their children are thriving. I freely acknowledge these things, and many others made possible by a variety of other people, without feeling "burdened" by gratitude. My life would be impoverished and much less pleasant without these people. I'd like to think that the people about whom I care and whom I've assisted also appreciate it, but it's certainly not necessary or desirable for them - or me - to harp away on it.
In many cultures, it is well understood that, when you save someone's life the person saved owes a life debt to the rescuer. This is what I imagine many children who are told that they owe their very lives to their APs rescuing them feel.
This is far beyond gratitude, for some it can become a burden that they can never be out from under.
Again, the response that adult adoptees have stated, is again being told that it isn't valid. Even if they are only a vocal subset of the general adoptee experience (and there is nothing that actually indicates that btw) than shouldn't the PAPs/APs and everyone else take that at face value. It gives the parents of adopted children a heads up into issues that could potentially cause them pain throughout their life. Is it really more important to sanctify adoption than to protect the self image of the adoptee?
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That said, I can see why people who experienced mismatched adoptions (I include a lot in "mismatched", and am using this term as a shortcut) would resent others telling them how appreciative they ought to be to be adopted. But I don't see this scenario at all in this video, which, was created to highlight the success of one individual family with many adopted kids who have special needs, and to encourage others to consider special needs adoption. In regard to gratitude, if anything, the comments of these parents seem to express their own gratitude at finding and being able to parent their clearly much-loved children. I see no evidence whatsoever that these parents expect overwhelming "gratitude" for having adopted them from their children, or that they expect public kudos.
It is unrealistic to expect a six-minute video to include in-depth interviews with all of the members of this large family, or to go into great detail about their personalities.
It appears to me that those who are critical of this video and this family may well be projecting their own unsatisfactory experiences, and thus may be missing both the nuances and the realities of this particular situation. I'd suggest that anyone experiencing triggering take a very close, very honest look at what they think their triggers are, and make sure they're not viewing these issues in absolute, black and white terms - and then try watching the video once again (from a "neutral" position - make sure you are not tired, hungry, thirsty, in physical or emotional pain at the time of watching, and be as objective as possible, without preconceived opinions of one kind or another) and see if those visceral reactions might not change.
I am not adopted, and thus not capable of projecting anything. I do understand and agree with the perception that there is a tone (not particularly from the APs) in parts of the video that could imply that adoption is something saintly.
I am not tired, hungry, adopted, or any other thing you have thought of to marginalize anyone's opinion that differs from yours.
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I'd also suggest that any triggering produced by watching this video is worth closer examination, perhaps with professional assistance, in order to reach acceptance of the unchangeable past, and to help lay the groundwork for a happier present and future.
So how are you going to explain away the multiple opinions of non-adoptees who see the same implications the adoptees do? Is it because I am tall? Short? A woman? Heck, maybe suggest "its that time of the month". It is a shame to marginalize people's opinions as a "condition" just because you disagree with it.
Exact same thing was done to the suffragettes when they didn't agree too. Wasn't ok then either.
I think the idea of all of us "misguided, hungry, thirsty, tired, wearing ill-fitting clothes, etc." adoptees (and those we've tainted) together, in a room, watching the video with a therapist/psychiatrist, to help us see how "wrong" we are, is quite amusing (and of course straight out of 1984).
As if there is a single, "correct" way to interpret the video! What a boring world that would be to live in.
Might people have differing opinions from you without suggesting that there is pathology in those with whom you disagree? That can run both ways, you know. I could just as easily posit pathology in *your* read of the video.
If you like it, great. But if others don't, please respect that without telling them they need "professional assistance" or to "try harder."
I think your responses and the manner in which they are written speak for themselves, quite clearly, and am not going to engage further with either of you in this topic.
I think your responses and the manner in which they are written speak for themselves, quite clearly, and am not going to engage further with either of you in this topic.
You mean because they come across as thoughtful people who are sick of being patronised?
My take on gratefulness is this:
I, like many adopted and non-adopted people, am grateful to have grown up in an OK home - just like you. I don't feel though that I should be MORE grateful that non-adopted people for growing up in an OK home.
I was reluctant to say anything earlier about the following mainly because 1) it was Christmas Eve and 2) Beachmel seems like a nice person
but I did feel a little bit patronised by the fact that it was felt that we should just be grateful to have been taken in by OK families.
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Originally Posted by beachmel As I said, we all have many things to be grateful for. There are people out there whom I believe would be great adoptive parents, but for one reason or another, they are not allowed the privilege. You, have been given the opportunity and been blessed. You are grateful, and that's a wonderful thing. I know this...if I was a child who was dumped off at an orphange and living in horrid conditions, I would be grateful if a good family took me in.
When I mention gratitude, I'm not talking about slavery, worship, etc. Also, as DOTM stated, ALL adopted children do not go to good homes....to wonderful people. I believe that the ones who do, should be grateful. They could have ended up in a much less desirable setting. Merry Christmas all.... be blessed and be blessings.
The following was my reply:
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Merry Christmas to you, too, Beachmel.
I have no doubt that many people, adopted or not adopted, are grateful for growing up in loving homes. Whether adopted humans should be more grateful than other humans is open to debate.
Perhaps the females on here might understand if I give the following example.
If one was a female who had become a doctor in the early half of last century - one might be grateful for being given the opportunity to be able to learn at a Medical School just like any other fellow doctor, male or otherwise. One might get sick and tired after a while though if they were constantly told that AS FEMALES they should be grateful for learning at the Medical School. Perhaps the females on this thread can get what I'm getting at? I think in this modern day and age, the majority of females in the western world would take affront at the suggestion that they should be more grateful for opportunities given to them than men should be. They may be grateful for the particular job they might have, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING MALE OR OTHERWISE but to be expected to be grateful for being female and having said job would make most females see red.
I note you say this:
I am grateful that I was hired for what was my dream job for a long time, many years ago.
Good on you. However, would you perhaps get sick and tired if everyone said to you that because of your background, you should be grateful for having that job? I am assuming you are a white male but what if you were, say from Timbuktu, and everyone kept saying that you should be grateful for your job because not many men from Mali get hired for those sort of jobs? Do you see the difference between being grateful for something in particular and being expected to be grateful for things in general because of one's background or start in life?
Last edited by susankate; 01-21-2013 at 06:59 PM..
I think your responses and the manner in which they are written speak for themselves, quite clearly, and am not going to engage further with either of you in this topic.
Good for you Craig! Tried to give you rep! Next time around.
Craig -- It seems to me that adoptive parents who have a problem with adoptees having a negative response to this video, who feel the need to marginalize our POV as others have pointed out, are also projecting.
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Originally Posted by sheena12
Perhaps the father is also a talented painter and the mother is also a talented artist. Perhaps one of the children is a poet and another an excellent student. That makes them special too. How can the video, which is about adoption depict all of these facets?
The offense is not that the video focuses on adoption but that it focuses on the adoptive parents being rescuers & the adoptive children being grateful/lucky to be "rescued."
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You say that you were once a "happy adoptee". What revelation did you have that made me "see the light" and become an unhappy adoptee?
First let me explain that "happy adoptee" is a term used to describe what people see. I don't identify as an "unhappy adoptee," that is just what people like you choose to see in me. Just as they chose to label me as a "happy adoptee" simply because I used to say I had no interest in my biological family.
But what happened exactly?
I matured & reached an age where I could mentally comprehend the full impact (good & bad) that adoption had on my life. The brain is not fully formed until your twenties, so it simply is not possible to truly assess until then. The older I got, the less afraid I was to admit that I was curious about where I came from & accepted that it was only natural. The older I got, the more I realized denying my curiosity was really a defense mechanism in response to not having access to enough information & not wanting to hurt my adoptive family.
If you see that as making me an "unhappy adoptee," that is how you see it. I see it as a natural part of the adoption experience. Children/teens should not be expected to "get over" or fully understand something as complex as the adoptee experience. You have to reassess what it means to you as an adult. If your adoptive parents encourage you to do so, it can be the most beautiful bonding experience.
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Not all people even define themselves as :adoptees". My daughter defined her self as a person. "Adoptee is not an essential category of human being as id gender. Many people are just people. All of us were born, some of us spend our childhoods in families to whom they were born, others in families that are not where they were born.
Why do you assume that identifying as an adoptee means I identify any less as a person? I do not share that belief & consider myself a person just as anyone else. Just as it makes you no less of a person to identify as a mother; this has been explained to you many times now, but I am not sure if you are willing or able to see it just yet. Being an adoptee is not a bad thing. I am proud to be an adoptee.
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There is nothing wrong with being grateful to our parents or to our children.
No, of course not... but as Susankate has pointed out there is a big difference in being grateful you were raised by a good family & had a good upbringing & being made to feel you should be MORE grateful than biological children simply because you were adopted.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 01-22-2013 at 07:59 AM..
Some seem to have confused "triggered" with "offended".
from wiki:
A trauma trigger is an experience that triggers a traumatic memory in someone who has experienced trauma. A trigger is thus a troubling reminder of a traumatic event, although the trigger itself need not be frightening or traumatic.
and from free dictionary:
offended: To cause displeasure, anger, resentment, or wounded feelings in.
As an example, an Afghanistan veteran I know with PTSD was suddenly overcome by feelings of panic. He looked for the source, realized it was from the smell of pork burning on a bbq. He was definitely not offended by the bbq; as a mess manager he organizes one monthly in the summer. The smell of burnt flesh triggered him, he was not in any way offended.
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