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I agree with what you said mostly. It should be about choice. Let the birth parents and adopted family decide what is best for them if both birth parent and adopted family want a closed adoption let them decide. Parents whether adopted or not adopted decide what is best for their child. Parents are always making decisions for their children sometimes the child grows up and doesn't like the decisions the parents made but they learn to deal with it ( divorce is an ex.). Then when the child is 18 let it be about mutual consent. I have 8 adopted family members only one who always had a name contacted and it was a disaster. The rest have no desire to contact. This push for open adoption for all is no different then it was closed adoption for all. No one size fits all.
Don't be angry with all the birth parents .... Not all think they have a right to come back into your lives. I know 3 who are fighting to keep birth certificates closed because they believe once they chose adoption the child belongs in the adopted family and they have moved on in their life. One was a teen mom, one a rape victim and another who thought her future husband was killed in the war. It would help if people like you who are successful with closed adoption could contact your legislature. The only people they hear from are those involved in the adoption reform movement who are very loud.
This is such bologna.
Biological parents do not have the right to keep the OBC from their adult children, that is a complete and utter fabrication. Neither should birth parents or adoptive parents have that right when a child is an adult. Everyone has a right to their OBC. Not letting adopted people see their OBC is treating them as lesser, there is no talking your way out of it.
I agree with what you said mostly. It should be about choice. Let the birth parents and adopted family decide what is best for them if both birth parent and adopted family want a closed adoption let them decide. Parents whether adopted or not adopted decide what is best for their child. Parents are always making decisions for their children sometimes the child grows up and doesn't like the decisions the parents made but they learn to deal with it ( divorce is an ex.). Then when the child is 18 let it be about mutual consent. I have 8 adopted family members only one who always had a name contacted and it was a disaster. The rest have no desire to contact. This push for open adoption for all is no different then it was closed adoption for all. No one size fits all.
Don't be angry with all the birth parents .... Not all think they have a right to come back into your lives. I know 3 who are fighting to keep birth certificates closed because they believe once they chose adoption the child belongs in the adopted family and they have moved on in their life. One was a teen mom, one a rape victim and another who thought her future husband was killed in the war. It would help if people like you who are successful with closed adoption could contact your legislature. The only people they hear from are those involved in the adoption reform movement who are very loud.
Maybe you still let your parents make decisions for you as an adult, but I don't. I'm an adult. I make my own decisions for my life. Adopted children grown into adults; adults are all equals. Adoptive parents don't get to continue to make decisions for them.
As many have said and you keep ignoring, the majority of birth parents are ok with open records. That's a statistical fact. It is the minority who want to keep records closed. I do not understand why the majority has to suffer greatly to appease the minority. Could you explain please? Why do your friends have higher rights than many other birth parents and many other adoptees? You have also not addressed the option of filing a no contact form, which would easily solve the fears of your friends but allow the majority the a cess they are seeking to their own history.
Maybe you still let your parents make decisions for you as an adult, but I don't. I'm an adult. I make my own decisions for my life. Adopted children grown into adults; adults are all equals. Adoptive parents don't get to continue to make decisions for them.
As many have said and you keep ignoring, the majority of birth parents are ok with open records. That's a statistical fact. It is the minority who want to keep records closed. I do not understand why the majority has to suffer greatly to appease the minority. Could you explain please? Why do your friends have higher rights than many other birth parents and many other adoptees? You have also not addressed the option of filing a no contact form, which would easily solve the fears of your friends but allow the majority the a cess they are seeking to their own history.
I have addressed no contact
No contact doesn't work. Look what happened with Oprah's mother she said no contact more than once. The adopted person went to other family members until she got what she wanted.
No contact leaves the decision up to the adopted person. He can choose to follow it or not. Leaves the woman living the rest of her life wondering if she is going to get a surprise phone call. Then once she gets the phone call (she almost can't say no because she doesn't know what the adopted person will do with a "no read some comments on any adoption forum from adopted person addressed toward someone who opposes OBC ) will the adopted person then go and contact family members. Something that happened years ago that she has kept private in her past is now out. We can say times have changed and they have, yet we still do not allow pregnant teens to attend regular high school classes. We can say times have changed but none of us would like it if our daughter came home and said she was pregnant and most of us would hope there were as many choices for our pregnant teen as possible to help her make the right decision for her. We can say times have changed but for an 80 year old woman the times haven't changed that much for her. No contacts and vetoes sometimes have other things attached to it. For example in my state there was a veto and she has one year to file that veto. First off the 3 birth parents I know had no idea a bill was being voted on. For the 80 year old birth mother I know it happened 60 years ago she is now in another state how would she know. The birth parent who was raped is not computer literate lives in a rural areal and has never seen anything in the paper. My sister who also isn't computer smart can't type but can get on line just happened to read that our state was going to vote on a bill with a veto. Now I keep track for them and support them in wanting to keep OBC sealed opened with mutual consent. I know their story and as I have said have several adopted family members. Any way the veto in our state would require a woman to give medical information every year for the rest of their life. A burden put on woman who made the right decision for themselves and were told birth certificates would be sealed. Even if you are right in everything you say these woman believed birh certificates would be sealed and why shouldn't they no adopted person has been given a birth certificate without going to court and most in adoption reform will say it is hard to get. It is taking a change in law to have them opened who thinks the law is going to change after 60 years. So I have this 80 year old woman in beginning stages of alzheimers who may forget or get sick and forget to send in medical information or my friend who was raped after years of filing medical information she gets sick and can't send it in the birth certificate can be opened. It's a burden a punishment for something that happened years ago.
Then with no contact and vetoes when the birth parent dies birth certificates could be opened.
So what is the point. They worked so hard to protect their privacy and now the whole thing is dumped in their families lap.
Almost half of adoptions are semi closed where birthparents want their identities not known.
I don't think you take choices away from woman.
If a birth parent and adopted parents want an open adoption ( you say the majority) then all information is shared. You have your information it is the majority as you say.
If BP and AP want a semi open adoption where identities are not known fine then at 18 mutual consent.
Same with closed adoption. At 18 mutual consent.
Let people decide what will work for them. Taking choice away is no different then the 1950's when closed adoption was the right thing to do for the birth parent, adopted parent, or adopted person. Now we are saying open adoption is the best 50 years from now we might find that is a failed project.
Mutual consent for past adoptions. National registry. Should be working on that. For people who have died let them rest in peace. Don't dump it on their family.
Just as there are some adoted people who don't want contact there are some birth parents who don't want contact. It should always be about mutual consent.
Almost half of adoptions are semi closed where birthparents want their identities not known.
I don't think you take choices away from woman.
If a birth parent and adopted parents want an open adoption ( you say the majority) then all information is shared. You have your information it is the majority as you say.
If BP and AP want a semi open adoption where identities are not known fine then at 18 mutual consent.
Same with closed adoption. At 18 mutual consent.
Let people decide what will work for them. Taking choice away is no different then the 1950's when closed adoption was the right thing to do for the birth parent, adopted parent, or adopted person. Now we are saying open adoption is the best 50 years from now we might find that is a failed project.
Mutual consent for past adoptions. National registry. Should be working on that. For people who have died let them rest in peace. Don't dump it on their family.
Just as there are some adoted people who don't want contact there are some birth parents who don't want contact. It should always be about mutual consent.
Open or closed adoptions have nothing to do with birth certificates being available to a person. The term open or closed only has meaning when the children are under 18. When the child is 18, that term has no meaning.
People's own Birth certificates should be available to them as adults. We are talking about adults here, not children.
I have addressed no contact
No contact doesn't work. Look what happened with Oprah's mother she said no contact more than once. The adopted person went to other family members until she got what she wanted.
No contact leaves the decision up to the adopted person. He can choose to follow it or not. Leaves the woman living the rest of her life wondering if she is going to get a surprise phone call. Then once she gets the phone call (she almost can't say no because she doesn't know what the adopted person will do with a "no read some comments on any adoption forum from adopted person addressed toward someone who opposes OBC ) will the adopted person then go and contact family members. Something that happened years ago that she has kept private in her past is now out. We can say times have changed and they have, yet we still do not allow pregnant teens to attend regular high school classes. We can say times have changed but none of us would like it if our daughter came home and said she was pregnant and most of us would hope there were as many choices for our pregnant teen as possible to help her make the right decision for her. We can say times have changed but for an 80 year old woman the times haven't changed that much for her. No contacts and vetoes sometimes have other things attached to it. For example in my state there was a veto and she has one year to file that veto. First off the 3 birth parents I know had no idea a bill was being voted on. For the 80 year old birth mother I know it happened 60 years ago she is now in another state how would she know. The birth parent who was raped is not computer literate lives in a rural areal and has never seen anything in the paper. My sister who also isn't computer smart can't type but can get on line just happened to read that our state was going to vote on a bill with a veto. Now I keep track for them and support them in wanting to keep OBC sealed opened with mutual consent. I know their story and as I have said have several adopted family members. Any way the veto in our state would require a woman to give medical information every year for the rest of their life. A burden put on woman who made the right decision for themselves and were told birth certificates would be sealed. Even if you are right in everything you say these woman believed birh certificates would be sealed and why shouldn't they no adopted person has been given a birth certificate without going to court and most in adoption reform will say it is hard to get. It is taking a change in law to have them opened who thinks the law is going to change after 60 years. So I have this 80 year old woman in beginning stages of alzheimers who may forget or get sick and forget to send in medical information or my friend who was raped after years of filing medical information she gets sick and can't send it in the birth certificate can be opened. It's a burden a punishment for something that happened years ago.
Then with no contact and vetoes when the birth parent dies birth certificates could be opened.
So what is the point. They worked so hard to protect their privacy and now the whole thing is dumped in their families lap.
Almost half of adoptions are semi closed where birthparents want their identities not known.
I don't think you take choices away from woman.
If a birth parent and adopted parents want an open adoption ( you say the majority) then all information is shared. You have your information it is the majority as you say.
If BP and AP want a semi open adoption where identities are not known fine then at 18 mutual consent.
Same with closed adoption. At 18 mutual consent.
Let people decide what will work for them. Taking choice away is no different then the 1950's when closed adoption was the right thing to do for the birth parent, adopted parent, or adopted person. Now we are saying open adoption is the best 50 years from now we might find that is a failed project.
Mutual consent for past adoptions. National registry. Should be working on that. For people who have died let them rest in peace. Don't dump it on their family.
Just as there are some adoted people who don't want contact there are some birth parents who don't want contact. It should always be about mutual consent.
Again, I will ask what part of the "triangle" (your word, not mine) are you representing? You appear to be speaking for mothers who have or will relinquish an awful lot........soooooooo
Identify, plz.
Parents are always making decisions for their children sometimes the child grows up and doesn't like the decisions the parents made but they learn to deal with it ( divorce is an ex.). .
Yep, children of divorce do learn to deal with it. Having said that, I am pretty damn sure that most people who divorce care very deeply about how their children will cope with the divorce. I doubt very much that they just say "Oh well, let's divorce, don't worry about the kids, they'll cope". Even if the divorce is the best option, there is usually the acknowledgment that the child could have problems and if the child does need to talk to someone, any caring parent will make sure they get the help they need. Even if divorce was the best option, I doubt very much that many parents would go "Stop your whining, divorce was the right thing, other people's parents are divorced and they have managed to cope with it".
Apparently though with adoption, adoptees are just supposed to "get with the program". It is apparently considered perfectly fine to say "Adopted kids will cope, if they don't there is something wrong with them; other adoptees feel blessed about being adopted, why can't they be; why would they want to go looking for biological relatives unless there is something wrong with them - my kid better not want to look or I'll feel betrayed".
The truth is that when the modern form of adoption was created in the 1950s, it placed conditions on the relationships. As long as the adoptee doesn't step outside the box created for them, all is roses.
Moderator cut: copyright violation - please, provide links rather than copy and paste
I have addressed no contact
No contact doesn't work. Look what happened with Oprah's mother she said no contact more than once. The adopted person went to other family members until she got what she wanted.
What's with the constant referral to Oprah's mother? I see no evidence that Patricia went through the official channels and obtained her OBC. If she had, perhaps Oprah's mother might have put a veto and and we might never have heard about Patricia.
It seems far more likely that Patricia had non-ID info about Vernita and, when Vernita went on TV to talk about her family, Patricia realised she was her daughter. She contacted Oprah and the rest is history.
Btw though Vernita doesn't want contact, is there any evidence to say that she is against the rest of the family having contact? It seems to be a personal choice on Vernita's behalf. Oprah seems happy to have Patricia in the family.
As for your in law, after she is gone, if records are open, then yes they can contact family. Perhaps some might welcome the adoptee. My bmother died young and hadn't told her family. I had a fair idea this was the situation (because I was born while she was on an overseas working holiday) which is why I decided not to make contact because, thinking she was still alive, I thought I would leave it up to her to make contact if she wished. However, when the internet became popular, I googled her name and discovered she had passed away. It took 4 years before I made contact, mainly because I wanted tofind out more about the relatives and also, knowing that my existence would be a surprise, I wanted to do any contact as respectfully as possible. In the end, the way I made contact was the best way I could have done so. My relatives were surprised but they have been very welcoming. Some of the relatives have said that knowing of my existence has helped them understand my bmother - quite a few independently said they always wondered why she was so sad and now they know. To be honest, I can't say for sure that has anything to do with my existence - perhraps she was sad about her failed relationship and perhaps she considered me to be just detritus - who knows. Perhaps she was about not being able to abort me - who knows. Then again, maybe she was sad about not ever seeing her baby again - who knows. I've been very respectful to my relatives and according to my cousin, my bmom's siblings seem to think I'm like a link to their sister they never knew they had (as she never had another living child). I am sure my relatives would have had quite happy lives without ever knowing I existed but I like to think that they are also having quite happy lives knowing that I do exist. I've tried not to affect their lives in any negative way and think I've succeeded so far.
Almost half of adoptions are semi closed where birthparents want their identities not known.
About 90% are open (about 15%) or semi-open (75%) - in the case of semi-open, it is often the adoptive parents who don't want their identity known. They know the bmother's name and where she lives but often the bmother doesn't know the adoptive parents full name or where they live.
If I were a recent bmother, I would want to know the full name and address of the adoptive parents and I would let them know mine (once the adoption has taken place). I don't think I would trust adoptive parents who weren't prepared to give me their details - they could quite easily close the adoption and would then be hard to trace.
Quote:
Any way the veto in our state would require a woman to give medical information every year for the rest of their life. A burden put on woman who made the right decision for themselves and were told birth certificates would be sealed.
What state are they in? Many states sealed their records retroactively. If your relatives are in these states then, unless your relatives had psychic social workers, they would not have been promised that the records were sealed.
Btw it was people like this who supported sealed records:
I have addressed no contact
No contact doesn't work. Look what happened with Oprah's mother she said no contact more than once.
Closed records don't work, either. I found my mother & my father without my OBC as thousands of others have.
Contact vetoes help prevent unwanted contact far more than closed records do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Priscilla151
Let people decide what will work for them. Taking choice away is no different then the 1950's when closed adoption was the right thing to do for the birth parent, adopted parent, or adopted person.
No one is taking a choice away by opening records.
Women have the right to choose adoption -- they never had the choice to permanently seal their child's birth records.
No one has the right to keep an adult from seeking out other adult family members.
The mother may choose not to have contact (as is her right), but the siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins may choose differently. Anyone who really cares about choices wouldn't be bothered by that.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 03-05-2013 at 04:02 AM..
There is no governmental right to privacy like Pricilia seems to be implying should apply to birth mothers. Public records that involve more than one individual are given to both parties. Take an accident report, the name of both drivers is going to be on the accident report. The list of documents of public record, that can be obtained with people's names on them is long and varied.
Birth mothers are not entitled to special treatment by their government at the expense of their adult birth children. It is only a matter of time before this is all opened up as that is the trend almost everywhere in this country, and elsewhere in the world. It is downright unconstitutional for adult adoptees to be denied their own government issued documents.
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