U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting > Adoption
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-19-2013, 05:08 PM
 
393 posts, read 505,460 times
Reputation: 440

Advertisements

They are young so unlikely to have any in-depth knowledge of how adoptees have been viewed by society - nor have real knowledge of the different hard feelings you go through as an adoptee at different stages of development. I think that is compounded by both his occupation of doing the art for comic books - and the fact that they can't get pregnant. I doubt it was done with anything but the best of intentions - but - I have deep concerns over the perception it protrays about adoption and adoptees. The other concern is that you never know what will take-off and be the "go to" book...best if they come to realize that it isn't great to compare adoptees to trolls and how super-duper it is that even after they have a real kid the troll gets to stay too. Do a story on trolls but make the couple some other mythical creatures - or something to not compare adoptees to trolls and the parents and real kid to humans.

I will see if I can come up with a comment that may make then consider things differently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-19-2013, 05:16 PM
 
10,532 posts, read 8,461,518 times
Reputation: 19291
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
This is because there are hundreds of thousands of children who remain within the Russian orphanage system compared to those who are adopted (even without a ban). To try to frame this problem any other way to promote adoption is dishonest as best.

As for your claim that Russian adoptive parents are more likely to abuse adoptees than American adoptive parents, I would have to see resources that confirm this before I give the claim any credit. Do you have any?

There is an article in today's "Washington Post" about the tragic death of the little boy in Texas. Several of the commentators have cited exact statistics re. the rates of child abuse in Russia and the US. These figures have been cited quite a bit during the last month and a half, since the Russian closure of adoption by Americans.

Russia's rate of child abuse and death is much higher any way you figure it for both domestically adopted children and biological children, compared with American kids who are biological, domestically adopted, or internationally adopted. I could not find any information about children who are internationally by Russians, but I'd guess they are very, very few, given that country's views towards adoption and orphans in general.

I don't have the other figures up my sleeve, but can look them up if you are unable to - right now, gotta hit the grocery.

Back later...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Western Canada
89 posts, read 102,245 times
Reputation: 144
A fellow adoptee did a little searching online. You can find the authors' web page at www.tylerkirkham.com or email him at: tylerkirkham@comcast.net
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 06:13 PM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,865,996 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
There is an article in today's "Washington Post" about the tragic death of the little boy in Texas. Several of the commentators have cited exact statistics re. the rates of child abuse in Russia and the US. These figures have been cited quite a bit during the last month and a half, since the Russian closure of adoption by Americans.

Russia's rate of child abuse and death is much higher any way you figure it for both domestically adopted children and biological children, compared with American kids who are biological, domestically adopted, or internationally adopted. I could not find any information about children who are internationally by Russians, but I'd guess they are very, very few, given that country's views towards adoption and orphans in general.

I don't have the other figures up my sleeve, but can look them up if you are unable to - right now, gotta hit the grocery.

Back later...
Perhaps we could say that we all hope that when it comes to international adoption that Africa can learn from the problems in Europe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 06:23 PM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,865,996 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artful Dodger View Post
They are young so unlikely to have any in-depth knowledge of how adoptees have been viewed by society - nor have real knowledge of the different hard feelings you go through as an adoptee at different stages of development. I think that is compounded by both his occupation of doing the art for comic books - and the fact that they can't get pregnant. I doubt it was done with anything but the best of intentions - but - I have deep concerns over the perception it protrays about adoption and adoptees. The other concern is that you never know what will take-off and be the "go to" book...best if they come to realize that it isn't great to compare adoptees to trolls and how super-duper it is that even after they have a real kid the troll gets to stay too. Do a story on trolls but make the couple some other mythical creatures - or something to not compare adoptees to trolls and the parents and real kid to humans.

I will see if I can come up with a comment that may make then consider things differently.
As you say, they mean well but they don't seem to have understood what perceptions an adoptee or foster child might take from their book.

He is a very talented artist and I think he could do a lovely book that was more appropriate along the lines of your suggestions
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 06:32 PM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,851,079 times
Reputation: 3121
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
There is an article in today's "Washington Post" about the tragic death of the little boy in Texas. Several of the commentators have cited exact statistics re. the rates of child abuse in Russia and the US. These figures have been cited quite a bit during the last month and a half, since the Russian closure of adoption by Americans.

Russia's rate of child abuse and death is much higher any way you figure it for both domestically adopted children and biological children, compared with American kids who are biological, domestically adopted, or internationally adopted. I could not find any information about children who are internationally by Russians, but I'd guess they are very, very few, given that country's views towards adoption and orphans in general.

I don't have the other figures up my sleeve, but can look them up if you are unable to - right now, gotta hit the grocery.

Back later...
(From that Washington Post article--last few paragraphs)

About 60,000 Russian children had been adopted by Americans before the ban took effect Jan. 1. Twenty of them, including Max, have reportedly died.

Russia, however, is not an easy place for children. With families generally unwilling or unable to adopt, thousands live in orphanages. About 2,000 children are killed every year in this country of 143 million.

On Tuesday, in a meeting with judges, Astakhov said that more than 89,000 children in Russia were treated violently in 2012 and that 2,100 had died. Russia has the third-highest teenage suicide rate in the world, more than three times that of the United States, and every day about about five Russians younger than 20 kill themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 07:19 PM
 
10,532 posts, read 8,461,518 times
Reputation: 19291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
(From that Washington Post article--last few paragraphs)

About 60,000 Russian children had been adopted by Americans before the ban took effect Jan. 1. Twenty of them, including Max, have reportedly died.

Russia, however, is not an easy place for children. With families generally unwilling or unable to adopt, thousands live in orphanages. About 2,000 children are killed every year in this country of 143 million.

On Tuesday, in a meeting with judges, Astakhov said that more than 89,000 children in Russia were treated violently in 2012 and that 2,100 had died. Russia has the third-highest teenage suicide rate in the world, more than three times that of the United States, and every day about about five Russians younger than 20 kill themselves.
Thanks, Linmora-these are horrific statistics, but revealing. So sad for any child to suffer such fate. It should be noted that Astakhov is one of the main supporters of the Russian ban of Americans adopting.

In an article in today's "Christian Science Monitor", similar figures are cited: over the last twenty years, 1,220 out of 170,000 adopted children living in Russia died from abuse. In the US during the same time period, 19 out of 60,000 children adopted from Russia died from abuse. At present, over 120,000 children are living in Russian orphanages and institutions.

No statistics were included about children living on the streets in Russia. Russia doesn't appear to have foster care at present. Russian officials have stated that they intend to reform orphan care and encourage adoption of Russian children by Russians. I surely hope this comes to pass, but regret the politicizing of children.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 07:19 PM
 
297 posts, read 419,769 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
(From that Washington Post article--last few paragraphs)

About 60,000 Russian children had been adopted by Americans before the ban took effect Jan. 1. Twenty of them, including Max, have reportedly died.

Russia, however, is not an easy place for children. With families generally unwilling or unable to adopt, thousands live in orphanages. About 2,000 children are killed every year in this country of 143 million.

On Tuesday, in a meeting with judges, Astakhov said that more than 89,000 children in Russia were treated violently in 2012 and that 2,100 had died. Russia has the third-highest teenage suicide rate in the world, more than three times that of the United States, and every day about about five Russians younger than 20 kill themselves.
Yes, those statistics are awful. So are these US Stats:
7.6% of adopted adolescents had attempted suicide in the past year,
compared with about 3% of their peers. Adopted adolescents were also
more likely to have received psychological or emotional counseling--about
17% of adopted youth compared with 8% of non-adopted youth.

Adopted teens in the US have more than double the suicide rate than their peers. How is this better?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 07:37 PM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,851,079 times
Reputation: 3121
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogluvr2012 View Post
Yes, those statistics are awful. So are these US Stats:
7.6% of adopted adolescents had attempted suicide in the past year,
compared with about 3% of their peers. Adopted adolescents were also
more likely to have received psychological or emotional counseling--about
17% of adopted youth compared with 8% of non-adopted youth.

Adopted teens in the US have more than double the suicide rate than their peers. How is this better?
Oh, I'm not looking to argue, I was pulling some numbers out of the Washington Post article Craig was referencing. Goes to show you that Russia has some serious problems as well and not all fingers can be pointed at the US. Thanks Craig for pointing me to that article.

I can see how adopted adolescents have significant issues so the numbers you quote are not surprising at all. Personally, I'm dealing with a troubled adolescent (Russian adoptee) with a host of issues, many from her time spent in a Russian orphanage, overlooked by potential adoptive Russian parents and left in the system. Fortunately, she is getting the help she needs and I am cautiously optimistic. Many of these children, like their US counterparts, need quite a bit of support. I'm so glad that international adoption was available to us at the time and we were able to bring two great kids home for a better chance in life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 07:44 PM
 
10,532 posts, read 8,461,518 times
Reputation: 19291
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogluvr2012 View Post
Yes, those statistics are awful. So are these US Stats:
7.6% of adopted adolescents had attempted suicide in the past year,
compared with about 3% of their peers. Adopted adolescents were also
more likely to have received psychological or emotional counseling--about
17% of adopted youth compared with 8% of non-adopted youth.

Adopted teens in the US have more than double the suicide rate than their peers. How is this better?

So sad, no matter in what country such troubled teens reside. Where did you find these figures, by the way? it's encouraging to see that these adolescents are receiving counseling, of course - that can save lives.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting > Adoption
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:02 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top