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Old 04-29-2013, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,105 posts, read 2,900,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
What should the Duggars consider? Psychotherapy? I don't know, anything but adoption.
I'm not following.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:29 AM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,277 posts, read 5,157,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I agree Jasper. Little attention is payed to Michelle's health, because of the families slavish devotion to this "Quiver Full: doctrine. ( having mega families)

Also, Josie was and remains medically fragile.

Better than an "orphanage and a foster home" is not good enough.

These people still could have had a large family, but not have made a business of it. I'm not sure that, for example; having five children would have made for a reality show.
So, a child should be allowed to possibly die because you think the family has too many kids? Nice.
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:42 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,591 posts, read 23,145,754 times
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There seem to be a love affair here with people who can biologically reproduce man quantities of kids.

No one seems to care if they beat their children, do not permit them to go to college, force early marriage and strange clothes, or force them to raise kids that they did not have.

They are biological parents! Hey they are a talented fertile couple! They live off their kids! But who cares! They are FERTIE!

Wow.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:04 PM
 
509 posts, read 483,193 times
Reputation: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
There seem to be a love affair here with people who can biologically reproduce man quantities of kids.

No one seems to care if they beat their children, do not permit them to go to college, force early marriage and strange clothes, or force them to raise kids that they did not have.

They are biological parents! Hey they are a talented fertile couple! They live off their kids! But who cares! They are FERTIE!

Wow.
Where did anyone say that?

FWIW, I don't care for the Duggars or agree with their lifestyle choices. I only said it's a far cry from disagreeing with the lifestyle they choose to having their children removed from them as Warren suggested. I don't personally agree with the way some people raise their children, and I know some people don't agree with how I raise my children. But we can't go around removing kids from every home where someone doesn't personally agree with their parenting methods! Who decides what is ok and what isn't?

Also, spanking is not considered a legitmate reason from removing children from a home by most DSSs. I don't agree with spanking, and I don't like it. Spanking is not considered to be abuse. But the reality is that many children who are spanked are still better off with their parents. I know some parents who are incredibly verbally abusive to their children. That's not illegal, either, even though it's damaging.

No one has proof they abuse their children. As I said before, it's all just an assumption.

There are no laws against how many children someone can have, just like there aren't laws about removing children from teen parents. We cannot legislate procreation and still claim to be a democratic society. We can seek to protect children from extreme abuse, but as much as I disagree with the Duggars lifestyle choices, they are not guilty of that level of abuse as far as I can tell.

It's not fair that children suffer. I don't like it. But I cannot see any method to propose for avoiding it that would actually work and be fair.

Last edited by tiffjoy; 04-30-2013 at 03:30 PM..
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:50 PM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,856,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
There seem to be a love affair here with people who can biologically reproduce man quantities of kids.

No one seems to care if they beat their children, do not permit them to go to college, force early marriage and strange clothes, or force them to raise kids that they did not have.

They are biological parents! Hey they are a talented fertile couple! They live off their kids! But who cares! They are FERTIE!

Wow.
What does it have to do with them being fertile? I remember watching another program at the same time where another family had mostly adopted kids and they were a lovely family. If you were saying similar things about them, I would be standing up for them too.

I am just trying to be fair towards them - eg I have no proof that they are being beaten. I would be the same if they were all adopted.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:26 PM
 
1,024 posts, read 984,721 times
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I do find it interesting that when people advocate for more ethical adoption regulations, there are almost always people who are quick to throw out the line, "So you don't care if children are left languishing in orphanages?" This is usually followed by long lectures about how terrible conditions & prospects are in other countries.

But when it comes to the Duggars adopting internationally, suddenly there are comments like these:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Better than an "orphanage and a foster home" is not good enough.
Anyone else confused by this?

Last edited by thethreefoldme; 04-30-2013 at 03:48 PM..
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:01 AM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,277 posts, read 5,157,324 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
I do find it interesting that when people advocate for more ethical adoption regulations, there are almost always people who are quick to throw out the line, "So you don't care if children are left languishing in orphanages?" This is usually followed by long lectures about how terrible conditions & prospects are in other countries.

But when it comes to the Duggars adopting internationally, suddenly there are comments like these:



Anyone else confused by this?
To be fair, the one who usually posts long posts is CraigCreek, and I don't believe he agrees with Sheena on this subject.

I know of a family that has 18 kids (most adopted) including five that were just adopted from Eastern Europe. These kids have been home for six months and are just blossoming in a loving family environment. Just because you have a lot of kids doesn't necessarily mean you can't provide an excellent, loving family environment.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:24 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,591 posts, read 23,145,754 times
Reputation: 48585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
I'm not following.
What's not to follow, Lizita? Warren said that the Duggars need psychotherapy, not adoption.
Unless of course the direction they are adopting is OUT!
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:35 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,591 posts, read 23,145,754 times
Reputation: 48585
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
I do find it interesting that when people advocate for more ethical adoption regulations, there are almost always people who are quick to throw out the line, "So you don't care if children are left languishing in orphanages?" This is usually followed by long lectures about how terrible conditions & prospects are in other countries.

But when it comes to the Duggars adopting internationally, suddenly there are comments like these:



Anyone else confused by this?
No one should be confused by this. Orphanages - and I've visited many, are not nice places. These is systematized abuse that takes place, food is scarce, they are cold, drafty, and sometimes dirty.

Saying that the Duggars home is "better than an orphanage" is not saying much. What's next? A Ditsky Dom is better than a concentration camp? Sure it is. But I'd recommend neither.

The Duggars do not just spank their children, susankate. They beat them. As prescribed by the Holy Bible, which as Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, they worship.

Specifically, they beat their children with plumbing tubing. They ascribe to the parenting methods of the Perls and adhere to the family ideals of Bill Gothard. Look it up.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,105 posts, read 2,900,544 times
Reputation: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
No one should be confused by this. Orphanages - and I've visited many, are not nice places. These is systematized abuse that takes place, food is scarce, they are cold, drafty, and sometimes dirty.

Saying that the Duggars home is "better than an orphanage" is not saying much. What's next? A Ditsky Dom is better than a concentration camp? Sure it is. But I'd recommend neither.

The Duggars do not just spank their children, susankate. They beat them. As prescribed by the Holy Bible, which as Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, they worship.

Specifically, they beat their children with plumbing tubing. They ascribe to the parenting methods of the Perls and adhere to the family ideals of Bill Gothard. Look it up.
Could you provide some kind of evidence of that? I looked, a lot, and I couldn't find anything other than a handful of blog posts. If they do in fact beat their children I would agree that they should not have any kids in their care but so far other than you and a couple of other people saying I haven't seen anything that would remotely convince me that that's the case. I'm definitely open to it.
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