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Old 04-15-2013, 07:50 PM
 
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Any parent, adoptive or biological, should not have to be "educated" on parenting. There is no way to teach someone how to parent. Some people make good or great parents, some do not, and never will...regardless of the number of parenting classes they take.

When PAPs are being screened, the tangible items are the most important because it is these items that are usually the reasons a child needs someone, other than his/her bio parents, to raise him/her. Great personalities do not make people better parents.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
Any parent, adoptive or biological, should not have to be "educated" on parenting. There is no way to teach someone how to parent. Some people make good or great parents, some do not, and never will...regardless of the number of parenting classes they take.
What? There is no way to teach someone how to parent? Then what is parenting classes and parenting books about? Of course someone can be taught, and learn, how to parent. Taking care of children is probably something most can do instinctively, more or less, but how to raise a child is something that is taught and can be improved with education. I think most parents would benefit from some kind of parenting education.

Quote:
When PAPs are being screened, the tangible items are the most important because it is these items that are usually the reasons a child needs someone, other than his/her bio parents, to raise him/her. Great personalities do not make people better parents.
And good finances, good grades and a problem-less past doesn't make people better parents either. Certain personalities and certain mentalities can in fact make someone a bad parent regardless of how responsible and successful they are otherwise and the same goes for the opposite.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:45 PM
 
1,879 posts, read 1,865,258 times
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Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
What? There is no way to teach someone how to parent? Then what is parenting classes and parenting books about? Of course someone can be taught, and learn, how to parent. Taking care of children is probably something most can do instinctively, more or less, but how to raise a child is something that is taught and can be improved with education. I think most parents would benefit from some kind of parenting education.



And good finances, good grades and a problem-less past doesn't make people better parents either. Certain personalities and certain mentalities can in fact make someone a bad parent regardless of how responsible and successful they are otherwise and the same goes for the opposite.
That is true. For example, those with narcissistic personality disorders tend to make bad parents although they may be otherwise successful in society.

Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
In addition to these symptoms, the person may also display dominance, arrogance, show superiority, and seek power.[6] The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder can be similar to the traits of individuals with strong self-esteem and confidence; differentiation occurs when the underlying psychological structures of these traits are considered pathological. Narcissists have such an elevated sense of self-worth that they value themselves as inherently better than others. However, they have a fragile self-esteem and cannot handle criticism, and will often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth. It is this sadistic tendency that is characteristic of narcissism as opposed to other psychological conditions affecting level of self-worth
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:16 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,989,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
What? There is no way to teach someone how to parent? Then what is parenting classes and parenting books about? Of course someone can be taught, and learn, how to parent. Taking care of children is probably something most can do instinctively, more or less, but how to raise a child is something that is taught and can be improved with education. I think most parents would benefit from some kind of parenting education.
My short answer. No. Centuries of parents successfully raised children without parenting classes. Are you saying you don't know anybody who parents well in spite of not taking any parenting classes? Just because there are parenting books and classes doesn't mean they work or are needed.

Sorry, but plenty of failed reunifications of foster children with their bio families are proof that bad parenting can't be resolved by "teaching" someone how to parent.

I think people read books and attend classes to support them in parenting, as in, when they are facing difficult challenges with their kids. But their basic parenting skills are set, IMO.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
My short answer. No. Centuries of parents successfully raised children without parenting classes. Are you saying you don't know anybody who parents well in spite of not taking any parenting classes? Just because there are parenting books and classes doesn't mean they work or are needed.

Sorry, but plenty of failed reunifications of foster children with their bio families are proof that bad parenting can't be resolved by "teaching" someone how to parent.

I think people read books and attend classes to support them in parenting, as in, when they are facing difficult challenges with their kids. But their basic parenting skills are set, IMO.
Perhaps a better phrase might be "to parent effectively". Many parents can parent without parenting classes. Some people may be improved with parenting classes. Sometimes there are issues in the way that may prevent parents from parenting effectively. When it comes to adoption, I am sure there are many prospective adoptive parents who are interested in finding out how to become as effective an adoptive parent as possible.

Quote:
Sorry, but plenty of failed reunifications of foster children with their bio families are proof that bad parenting can't be resolved by "teaching" someone how to parent.
That may be also because taking the child away then returning them doesn't seem to be as effective programs like Home Builders where the families receive an intensive program designed to help them to parent more effectively - sometimes there are issues that might be affecting this effectiveness and dealing with them may help the parents parent more effectively.

As for infant adoption, is it fair to tell expectant parents that due to their "tangible problems", they will bad parents due to those problems? Sometimes if the problems are tangible, it means that they can be dealt with.

Btw there also seems to be an assumption that a woman who has placed her child for adoption has done so purely because she lacks the maturity or inclination to parent which may actually have nothing to do with her reasons for relinquishing at all. Whatever reasons my bmom had for relinquishment is unlikely to have had anything to do with her intrinsic ability to parent.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:14 AM
Status: "LILY DALE!" (set 1 hour ago)
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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[quote=susankate;29140249]Would you feel the same about the Duggars if the Duggars had adopted their 20 kids? As much as I dislike Jim-Bob, one thing I suspect that he is good at is dealing with finances. I do know that before they decided to start their family, they put themselves in as good a financial position as possible. The show assists in that regards as well -


I would feek the same way if the children were adopted. No differently. I don't see adoption and giving birth as fundamentally different. I know that you differ.

My problem with the Duggars is the way that they use their large brood, exploit them; if you will. for personal gain.

That's not a family, it's a group home.

Yes he is good with money. He's a master manipulator. He has also encouraged his wife to have more children with complete disregard for her health and the health of the baby.

If they had no TV show, I would not be surprised if Child Services was involved in their lives/

I feel the same about mega families through adoption. I think some to it for attention, recycling the tax credit into their next adoption. It sickens me.

One criteria that has not been mentioned is age. I don't care if the parent is biological or though adoption - parents should be adults. Over 21.
Are all adults good parents? No. Are a few teenagers good parents? Perhaps.

Age continuously appears on lists of risk factors predictive of child abuse.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:36 AM
 
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[quote=sheena12;29142889]
Quote:
Originally Posted by susankate View Post
Would you feel the same about the Duggars if the Duggars had adopted their 20 kids? As much as I dislike Jim-Bob, one thing I suspect that he is good at is dealing with finances. I do know that before they decided to start their family, they put themselves in as good a financial position as possible. The show assists in that regards as well -


I would feek the same way if the children were adopted. No differently. I don't see adoption and giving birth as fundamentally different. I know that you differ.

My problem with the Duggars is the way that they use their large brood, exploit them; if you will. for personal gain.

That's not a family, it's a group home.

Yes he is good with money. He's a master manipulator. He has also encouraged his wife to have more children with complete disregard for her health and the health of the baby.

If they had no TV show, I would not be surprised if Child Services was involved in their lives/

I feel the same about mega families through adoption. I think some to it for attention, recycling the tax credit into their next adoption. It sickens me.

One criteria that has not been mentioned is age. I don't care if the parent is biological or though adoption - parents should be adults. Over 21.
Are all adults good parents? No. Are a few teenagers good parents? Perhaps.

Age continuously appears on lists of risk factors predictive of child abuse.
I know plenty of people who have become parents in late teens and early 20s, they are great parents. Though many Australians go to uni, it is relatively easy to get a job without a uni degree. I only went to Year 11 (quite common at the time I left school - one only went to uni if they had a specific career in mind).

Many of the mediaworthy cases of abuse I've seen here in Australia actually seem to beby older parents - however, there is one link between many of them and that is addiction/drug/alcohol abuse. Drug abuse is probably the major factor in child abuse cases (along with mental illness).
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:13 AM
 
509 posts, read 484,764 times
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Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
What? There is no way to teach someone how to parent? Then what is parenting classes and parenting books about? Of course someone can be taught, and learn, how to parent. Taking care of children is probably something most can do instinctively, more or less, but how to raise a child is something that is taught and can be improved with education. I think most parents would benefit from some kind of parenting education.
The people who know the most about parenting are those who aren't yet parents. I think everyone can relate to this. You know, watching parents interact with their kids and tsk-tsking and thinking how you would never do that or if that were your child you'd do this, etc.

The truth is, anyone who is actually a parent knows how incredibly complex and challenging a role it is, and therefore, good parents seek out ways to improve their own parenting skills through all different methods of education. Some talk to friends. Some take classes. Some read books.

I had so many breastfeeding difficulties with my first daughter. Something very natural was actually quite challenging, and I needed a lot of help. Just because something is instinctual doesn't mean it comes easy. In searching out help, I found a group of mothers who I still am very connected with who are my source for advice and support. We definitely give each other parenting book recommendations, or, as is more common, website recommendations. I've learned so much from several books I've read, and I'm sure many other good parents do as well.

Raising children is definitely instinctual. But just because they didn't have parenting books 1000 years ago doesn't mean we shouldn't take advantage of that resource today. Child psychology is a relatively new field, and I see no reason why parents should scoff at utilzing that modern resource to help raise emotionally healthy children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
And good finances, good grades and a problem-less past doesn't make people better parents either. Certain personalities and certain mentalities can in fact make someone a bad parent regardless of how responsible and successful they are otherwise and the same goes for the opposite.
Too true.

However, I think a lot of the screening for APs is a good thing. I wouldn't want any less and would actually prefer more weeding out of people who are not emotionally capable of being an Adoptive Parent, which comes with a different set of necessary parenting qualities than does raising biological children, like it or not.

We were recently discussing on this board about abuse in adoptive families. On that thread, we talked about the need for more screening and eliminating people who show possible red flags that might lead to abuse. If we are being honest, someone with a history of substance abuse, mental health issues, etc, is more likely to be an abusive parent. It doesn't mean they are not capable of being a good parent; they very well might be. But is it responsible for us as a society to entrust a child to their care at the same time as we should be addressing abuse and trying to lower it?
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:22 AM
 
1,014 posts, read 988,013 times
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Originally Posted by tiffjoy View Post
However, I think a lot of the screening for APs is a good thing. I wouldn't want any less and would actually prefer more weeding out of people who are not emotionally capable of being an Adoptive Parent, which comes with a different set of necessary parenting qualities than does raising biological children, like it or not.
This.

Quote:
We were recently discussing on this board about abuse in adoptive families. On that thread, we talked about the need for more screening and eliminating people who show possible red flags that might lead to abuse. If we are being honest, someone with a history of substance abuse, mental health issues, etc, is more likely to be an abusive parent. It doesn't mean they are not capable of being a good parent; they very well might be. But is it responsible for us as a society to entrust a child to their care at the same time as we should be addressing abuse and trying to lower it?
Exactly. While we have no control over those who procreate, we do have some level of control over those who are approved to adopt. We as a society should pledge to do whatever we can to make sure PAPs & foster parents are well-informed & that there are no apparent red-flags for potential abuse.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,185 posts, read 15,051,305 times
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We went through a homestudy in both KS and AZ and most of the criteria that people seem to think is important was covered in those homestudies. In our case, we did have a 7 year old when we started the process so we had an example of our parenting. He was interviewed alone. He told the social worker that everyone in the family wanted to adopt because we would be able to get new toys. We got to attend the MAPP classes in AZ and meet other families who were considering adopting and if you have been among the families, I think there is a common thread, a feeling of those that want to adopt for the right reasons rather than some selfish and/or mental health deficiency reasons. Seriously, I could not believe that people would want to adopt a child because it might be a cure for their infertility. Or to adopt to have a companion for their other child. You're always going to have a few people that aren't mentally healthy slip through the cracks. I do think anyone considering parenting should be able to produce a budget and show they can afford another child. I did ask one of the workers what they do when someone wants to adopt and it is obvious they could not afford to have a child and she said they she had them make a budget with the additional costs of a child and they came to realize they could not afford to adopt at that time. It took a lot of patience to deal with all the interviews, classes, paperwork so if all of that is being done without giving up, I think you have a good potential for adopting.
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