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Old 04-14-2013, 01:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
I'm thinking there is probably more to this story. Don't know that we'll ever know though. But if the mother is actively placing her 6-year old for adoption, one has to wonder if it would be wise to make her keep him.
Exactly.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:16 PM
 
Location: California
25,616 posts, read 17,133,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
I'm very much aware of severe behavior problems and I understand that this case is likely not only a matter of a kid misbehaving. I don't blame a parent for not being able to care for a severely mentally ill child but is giving them up completely the solution? An RTC or therapeutic foster care would be a more reasonable solution. Then again that's not always available depending on where you live and the support system you have. I do know of other parents of mentally ill children who have had to give them up to foster care in order to get them the help they need. I guess maybe one should know more of the story before one criticizes this mom.
Sometimes yes. In cases like this people are so focused on the kid they don't consider the parent, who may well have serious problems of their own. Some people really are better off without kids, or certain kids, in their life. And that has to be acknowledged and accepted.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:27 PM
Status: "Winter is here, burrr" (set 6 days ago)
 
16,487 posts, read 11,977,359 times
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I have seen this before and it does happen.

I know of a woman that actually is an adoption facilitator that adopted a child through an agency when she was 2 yrs. old. By the time the child was around5 or 6 she and her husband did not feel like they could handle her behavior anymore and began looking for someone to adopt her. She did find someone, an older couple that was never able to have children, and they adopted her. This facilitator had no contact at all with the birthparent and also have no contact with the child after she placed her.

I also know of another situation. When we were trying to adopt someone came across our adoption website and contacted me. This was a single older woman that lived on the other side of the country and had a daughter that was around 4 or 5. The child did not have any behavioral problems mentioned. The mom had gotten pregnant and did not even know she was pregnant until she was close to delivery. She did not have a good relationship with the father of the child. She chose to raise her because of family pressure, but she herself wanted to place her for adoption at birth. Well 5 years later she was telling me that she never connected with the child and did not love her. She didn't want any contact personally with the girl once placed, but wanted to send her gifts for her birthday and Christmas. She also said she sewed and wanted to sew her a special outfit every year for her birthday. We had many very very long phone calls. She wanted me to come across country and stay for a couple of weeks so she could decide if she liked me. I told her it would work out better if they came to me as I had 3 children at home and my husband worked long hours. The clincher in all of this was one night we were talking and she basically said she wanted to get "rid" of her daughter so that she could meet a guy and have a baby with someone she "loved". Things got really messy and we decided to part ways. This woman was very controlling. She wanted to place her daughter and yet she also wanted to tell you how you were allowed to raise her in every way you can imagine.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,073 posts, read 1,094,327 times
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Poor child. I hope she found a great new family and her mom didn't decide to keep her after all. That can lead to no good. Mothers shouldn't always keep children. A couple of years ago there was a young woman on Dr Phil who was considering giving up her 3-year old and 1-year old. She was only 21 and felt that she wanted more out of life and couldn't handle the stress of two small kids. As a result she had started to yell at the kids and called them very vile names, especially the oldest girl. On a few occasions she has even hit the girl. She said that she was afraid that her mistreatment of the children would escalate.
In my opinion finding a new family for those two kids would have been the best thing considering the circumstances. Without major changes the abuse would surely escalate. Surprisingly, though, Dr Phil disagreed with me. He kept telling this young woman that you can't just check out of motherhood. Once you have kids you don't have a choice to just quit, according to him. Well, that sounds good in theory but in reality it's not always in the best interest of the kids. If the mother is already starting to become abusive there is no reason to believe that it will stop when the stress is likely to continue.

I do, however, disagree that it's best to end the relationship completely. I don't believe that it's best for the child for the mother to completely disappear from her life which would likely be seen as complete abandonment.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
Poor child. I hope she found a great new family and her mom didn't decide to keep her after all. That can lead to no good. Mothers shouldn't always keep children. A couple of years ago there was a young woman on Dr Phil who was considering giving up her 3-year old and 1-year old. She was only 21 and felt that she wanted more out of life and couldn't handle the stress of two small kids. As a result she had started to yell at the kids and called them very vile names, especially the oldest girl. On a few occasions she has even hit the girl. She said that she was afraid that her mistreatment of the children would escalate.
In my opinion finding a new family for those two kids would have been the best thing considering the circumstances. Without major changes the abuse would surely escalate. Surprisingly, though, Dr Phil disagreed with me. He kept telling this young woman that you can't just check out of motherhood. Once you have kids you don't have a choice to just quit, according to him. Well, that sounds good in theory but in reality it's not always in the best interest of the kids. If the mother is already starting to become abusive there is no reason to believe that it will stop when the stress is likely to continue.

I do, however, disagree that it's best to end the relationship completely. I don't believe that it's best for the child for the mother to completely disappear from her life which would likely be seen as complete abandonment.
It sounds like she was at the end of her tether. Just out of interest, did Dr Phil just badger her or did he offer some constructive advice about whom to turn to etc, organisations that can provide moral support etc and perhaps help her create alternative ways of coping with her stress? Btw that is what I would say in regards to anyone, just because that is what I would hope would be the type of advice I would receive if I was at the end of my tether.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artful Dodger View Post
no kudzu,

Why can't biological parents put their children up for adoption if adoptive parents can? Rehoming / readoption happens far more frequently than most would imagine and mostly without the state being involved. I am not speaking about step-parent adoptions - regular adoptive parents finding new adoptive parents for their adopted child and usually for behavorial reasons.
I've seen blogs where adoptive parents ask their readers to help them find other parents for adopted children they know. Apparently also there is quite an underground movement of rehousing one's adopted children (mainly amongst those who have been urged to adopt by their church and then found that the reality of adopting an older child is not what they expected).
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susankate View Post
It sounds like she was at the end of her tether. Just out of interest, did Dr Phil just badger her or did he offer some constructive advice about whom to turn to etc, organisations that can provide moral support etc and perhaps help her create alternative ways of coping with her stress? Btw that is what I would say in regards to anyone, just because that is what I would hope would be the type of advice I would receive if I was at the end of my tether.
I don't remember exactly what Dr Phil said to the mother but I believe that he encouraged her to find a way to deal with the stress. I don't believe he was badgering her other than telling her that you can't just quit on motherhood which, considering the circumstances, I disagree with.
It would of course be best if this mother would have gotten the help she needed to continue raising her kids if that's what she wanted. That would have been ideal. But unfortunately the help she needed isn't available unless you have money to pay for it and this girl didn't. In addition to therapy she would have needed help with childcare so that she could get a break once in a while but as far as I know there are no organizations that offer that unless you have a child with a disability whereby you can get respite care if you're lucky.

In other countries they actually do have help for parents in situations like this. The parent gets help from a "support family" which is basically a part-time foster home where the kids can go as often as the family needs. It's provided by Social Services so there is no cost to the parents. I think something like that should be available here too. I bet it could keep many kids out of foster care and even keep them from being abused or neglected. Sadly though there aren't a lot of services for families in crisis in the US. We'd rather remove kids from their homes than do what it takes to keep them at home or keep them from being abused. I read about a mother who had her two kids taken away because her home was in bad shape and the electricity had been turned off. Wouldn't it have made more sense to put the family in a better apartment and help them with the electricity instead of creating trauma and heartache for the whole family by taking the kids away?

I still think there are situations where it would be best for a parent to place their kids with another family and the situation on Dr Phil is one of those. This mother told her 3-year old daughter that she was a little ***** and that she hated her. She'd also hit the girl in anger. She made it very clear that she didn't want to be a mother anymore and didn't want to be tied down by the kids. Unless she would be provided with a number of different resources with widespread help the risk is high that she will go on to despise her kids and blame them for her life not being what she wants it to be. That in turn will turn into abuse which will cause deep wounds in their souls that may never heal.
I would hope that other measures would be taken first to see if the situation can be rectified but if things don't improve enough adoption may be best for everyone as long as it's an open adoption where the mom can remain in the children's lives.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:01 AM
 
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
I don't remember exactly what Dr Phil said to the mother but I believe that he encouraged her to find a way to deal with the stress. I don't believe he was badgering her other than telling her that you can't just quit on motherhood which, considering the circumstances, I disagree with.
It would of course be best if this mother would have gotten the help she needed to continue raising her kids if that's what she wanted. That would have been ideal. But unfortunately the help she needed isn't available unless you have money to pay for it and this girl didn't. In addition to therapy she would have needed help with childcare so that she could get a break once in a while but as far as I know there are no organizations that offer that unless you have a child with a disability whereby you can get respite care if you're lucky.
My personal opinion is that when a country is developing its resources for children, it must do so "as if" the resource of adoption became unavailable. This is NOT to say adoption shouldn't exist but more that governments should not be relying on adoption to act as a "safety net".

One thing I've noticed when it comes to those whom are pregnant and considering adoption is that they often are the "proud working poor" and they fall through the cracks in regards to resources.

Childcare is of course a very important factor in regards to child welfare. For example, if you are working, you need someone to mind your child and if the childcare options are made impossible then one may feel that the only way to keep one's child safe is to relinquish them to be adopted.

Quote:
In other countries they actually do have help for parents in situations like this. The parent gets help from a "support family" which is basically a part-time foster home where the kids can go as often as the family needs. It's provided by Social Services so there is no cost to the parents. I think something like that should be available here too. I bet it could keep many kids out of foster care and even keep them from being abused or neglected. Sadly though there aren't a lot of services for families in crisis in the US. We'd rather remove kids from their homes than do what it takes to keep them at home or keep them from being abused. I read about a mother who had her two kids taken away because her home was in bad shape and the electricity had been turned off. Wouldn't it have made more sense to put the family in a better apartment and help them with the electricity instead of creating trauma and heartache for the whole family by taking the kids away?
This program (which is used by some states and counties) sounds like it would have been the ideal type of help that the above mother would need. Apparently, it is very effective.

Programs for Intensive Family Preservation and Intensive Family Reunification - Institute for Family Development

Quote:
I still think there are situations where it would be best for a parent to place their kids with another family and the situation on Dr Phil is one of those. This mother told her 3-year old daughter that she was a little ***** and that she hated her. She'd also hit the girl in anger. She made it very clear that she didn't want to be a mother anymore and didn't want to be tied down by the kids. Unless she would be provided with a number of different resources with widespread help the risk is high that she will go on to despise her kids and blame them for her life not being what she wants it to be. That in turn will turn into abuse which will cause deep wounds in their souls that may never heal.
I would hope that other measures would be taken first to see if the situation can be rectified but if things don't improve enough adoption may be best for everyone as long as it's an open adoption where the mom can remain in the children's lives.
If you have a look at the "client story" in the above link, Maria, she sounds a bit like the Dr Phil guest.

I just think for the child's sake, the first thing should be to see what can be done first before relinquishing the child. If there are situational factors causing her feelings then one needs to ascertain what they are first.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:37 PM
Status: "Winter is here, burrr" (set 6 days ago)
 
16,487 posts, read 11,977,359 times
Reputation: 15809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
Poor child. I hope she found a great new family and her mom didn't decide to keep her after all. That can lead to no good. Mothers shouldn't always keep children. A couple of years ago there was a young woman on Dr Phil who was considering giving up her 3-year old and 1-year old. She was only 21 and felt that she wanted more out of life and couldn't handle the stress of two small kids. As a result she had started to yell at the kids and called them very vile names, especially the oldest girl. On a few occasions she has even hit the girl. She said that she was afraid that her mistreatment of the children would escalate.
In my opinion finding a new family for those two kids would have been the best thing considering the circumstances. Without major changes the abuse would surely escalate. Surprisingly, though, Dr Phil disagreed with me. He kept telling this young woman that you can't just check out of motherhood. Once you have kids you don't have a choice to just quit, according to him. Well, that sounds good in theory but in reality it's not always in the best interest of the kids. If the mother is already starting to become abusive there is no reason to believe that it will stop when the stress is likely to continue.

I do, however, disagree that it's best to end the relationship completely. I don't believe that it's best for the child for the mother to completely disappear from her life which would likely be seen as complete abandonment.
I agree with you. I "get" what Dr. Phil was saying and it sounds good on paper. Parenthood should not be something you just check out of when things get tough, but in the meantime who is really doing the suffering? The kids... There simply are time where the biological parent/parents are not the healthiest person to raise the child. Since abuse can be very closely related to being raised that way yourself, looking towards a relative to take the child/children is not also the healthiest idea.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:17 PM
 
1,509 posts, read 718,653 times
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Originally Posted by brokencrayola View Post
I agree with you. I "get" what Dr. Phil was saying and it sounds good on paper. Parenthood should not be something you just check out of when things get tough, but in the meantime who is really doing the suffering? The kids... There simply are time where the biological parent/parents are not the healthiest person to raise the child. Since abuse can be very closely related to being raised that way yourself, looking towards a relative to take the child/children is not also the healthiest idea.
I don't think anyone is saying that things should stay as they are, I am just saying that before actually relinquishing a child, one does need to make sure there aren't underlying issues that might be making a parent feel a certain way. It may be that it is eventually in the child's best interest to be relinquished but I wouldn't want to be suggesting that until one makes sure there isn't an underlying issue that can be resolved. Certainly though, things shouldn't stay as the status quo and as you point out, just saying "you can't check out of parenthood" to a struggling mother is hardly constructive help.
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