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Old 04-29-2013, 11:21 AM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,980,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
I'm not sure how you came to this assumption, but it couldn't be farther from the truth:

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/f_adimpact.cfm

Losses do not cease to exist simply because you were adopted as a newborn.
Sure they can. Happens all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avery_Harper View Post
If you don't like my opinions about this topic, please skip them. I was very clear to state exactly the type of parents/aparents who continue to keep their heads buried in the sand. I was clear to state that IMO, baby safe haven laws are irresponsible legislation and the reasons why. My opinions are backed by reputable source; the Adoption institute who came to many of the same conclusions. Never did I personalize my opinions. There is no reason for you to be so defensive. Take what you can from my posts, respect that I have a right to share my opinion and leave the rest behind. You also have a right to your opinion, and I have a right not to agree.
Sorry, but I'm not skipping any topics. However, if you don't like my rebuttals, you may skip them.

I repeat, all 50 states have safe haven laws. Like it or not, these laws aren't going to disappear anytime soon, despite Mr. Pertman's "urges" to state legislatures to make them unlawful. I have no problem being defensive when it comes to supporting efforts designed to save lives.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,105 posts, read 2,897,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded View Post

After reading your posts it is clear that you are against Safe Haven Laws because it denies those who are against infant adoptions the opportunity to persuade a birth mother to keep and parent her child. A child I might add, that she clearly does not want to parent.
That's not necessarily true. Abandonment, whether in a safe or unsafe place, is often a decision made in panic and may not have much to do with rationality. In fact in many states, if not all, the parent can get the baby back within a few days and it happens. Even girls who abandon their newborns in unsafe places sometimes really want to parent once the initial panic settles down. There was a girl here in Chicago a few years ago who put her baby in a trash can at her college and she managed to regain custody and is now successfully raising her daughter. Another woman who's an immigrant from Cambodia put her baby in the grass by a neighborhood because she was too afraid to let her family know that she had gotten pregnant out of wedlock. She is now fighting to get her son back. Unfortunately for her it doesn't look like it will happen.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:47 AM
 
1,024 posts, read 984,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
Sure they can. Happens all the time.
How one is impacted (or not impacted) by certain losses is unique to the individual, but losses do not magically disappear simply because you were adopted as an infant. From the source I provided earlier:

Quote:
Even those who are adopted as newborns at times experience a loss of the early bond to the mother, although this loss may not become apparent until the child is older and able to understand the consequences. In the book Being Adopted: The Lifelong Search for Self, authors Brodzinsky, Schechter, and Marantz (1992) suggest that dealing with the loss of the birth parents, coupled with a search for self, are two processes that can contribute to shaping the psychological development of adopted persons. These authors outline developmental tasks that an adopted person should address at each stage of life in order to make a healthy adaptation and to cope with the feelings of loss and the search for self.
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/f_adimpact.cfm
There is also loss of information about themselves, their biological family, why the Safe Haven Law was utilized, medical information, etc. How exactly does being adopted as a newborn make those losses cease to exist?

Last edited by thethreefoldme; 04-29-2013 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:57 PM
 
1,024 posts, read 984,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
That's not necessarily true. Abandonment, whether in a safe or unsafe place, is often a decision made in panic and may not have much to do with rationality. In fact in many states, if not all, the parent can get the baby back within a few days and it happens. Even girls who abandon their newborns in unsafe places sometimes really want to parent once the initial panic settles down. There was a girl here in Chicago a few years ago who put her baby in a trash can at her college and she managed to regain custody and is now successfully raising her daughter. Another woman who's an immigrant from Cambodia put her baby in the grass by a neighborhood because she was too afraid to let her family know that she had gotten pregnant out of wedlock. She is now fighting to get her son back. Unfortunately for her it doesn't look like it will happen.
Excellent points. You cannot assume someone utilized a Safe Haven Law because they don't want to parent. Most likely there are extreme circumstances taking precedence over everything else.
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: California
167 posts, read 153,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
Excellent points. One cannot assume someone utilized a Safe Haven Law because they don't want to parent. Most likely there are extreme circumstances taking precedence over everything else.
Truly, I think some members of society, for some reason or another, prefer to believe that women who use Safe Havens don't want to parent. Such an easy myth to debunk if one bothers to take the blinders off.
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:08 PM
 
Location: California
167 posts, read 153,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
That's not necessarily true. Abandonment, whether in a safe or unsafe place, is often a decision made in panic and may not have much to do with rationality. In fact in many states, if not all, the parent can get the baby back within a few days and it happens. Even girls who abandon their newborns in unsafe places sometimes really want to parent once the initial panic settles down. There was a girl here in Chicago a few years ago who put her baby in a trash can at her college and she managed to regain custody and is now successfully raising her daughter. Another woman who's an immigrant from Cambodia put her baby in the grass by a neighborhood because she was too afraid to let her family know that she had gotten pregnant out of wedlock. She is now fighting to get her son back. Unfortunately for her it doesn't look like it will happen.

Brilliance! Thank you for a thoughtful response and saving me the bandwidth.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:19 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,980,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
That's not necessarily true. Abandonment, whether in a safe or unsafe place, is often a decision made in panic and may not have much to do with rationality. In fact in many states, if not all, the parent can get the baby back within a few days and it happens. Even girls who abandon their newborns in unsafe places sometimes really want to parent once the initial panic settles down. There was a girl here in Chicago a few years ago who put her baby in a trash can at her college and she managed to regain custody and is now successfully raising her daughter. Another woman who's an immigrant from Cambodia put her baby in the grass by a neighborhood because she was too afraid to let her family know that she had gotten pregnant out of wedlock. She is now fighting to get her son back. Unfortunately for her it doesn't look like it will happen.
By panic or done rationally, statistically, infants who are abandoned are not later recovered by the birth parents because they've had a change of heart. Of course, there will always be exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
How exactly does being adopted as a newborn make those losses cease to exist?
It has become very popular to coin the phrase "all adoption begins with loss." Many feel that the biological family is the only family and that any other relationship is a substitute for one's biological family. Just as society has moved beyond the "nuclear family" we will move beyond the notion that one's original family is "lost" through adoption. In reality, for infants, their family isn't lost at all. No infant is born with the intellectual capacity to form the type of memories necessary to articulate in adulthood that they experienced loss at such a young age.

So, if an infant is raised to believe that not being raised within his biological family was traumatic and he has suffered great loss because of this, then that's what he'll believe in adulthood; or, if an adult who was adopted as an infant is told this in adulthood, he may believe that is the cause/reason for issues or uneasy feelings in his life. That is what he will internalize. Even if his adoptive family was loving, nurturing, and caring.

Nature published research that ABC highlights here: When Do Babies Develop Memories?

The sad thing is that "Loss" in adoption has become a meal ticket for many therapists. It is overly diagnosed and often missplaced on certain members of the adoption triad, which keeps a patient returning to the therapist hence the therapist keeps her job. I'm not saying that loss is not experienced at all, but the child's age, circumstances of the adoption, and messages about her adoption, all influence his/her feelings about loss. These feelings are much more prelevant in older child adoptions.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:51 PM
 
509 posts, read 482,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
How one is impacted (or not impacted) by certain losses is unique to the individual, but losses do not magically disappear simply because you were adopted as an infant. From the source I provided earlier:

There is also loss of information about themselves, their biological family, why the Safe Haven Law was utilized, medical information, etc. How exactly does being adopted as a newborn make those losses cease to exist?

Excellent.

I'm not going to weigh in on what I think about the Safe Haven Laws in particular as my opinions are currently in flux (so I really appreciate all this info, especially from adoptees who will always have a unique window into what being adopted actually feels like that no one else will understand) but I wanted to highlight this point.

I'm awfully tired of people trying to tell adoptees that it's how they were raised that determines if they feel they suffered a loss or not. If any adoptee would correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd like to reiterate once again that every adoptee here with one exception has repeatedly stated they have or had good (adoptive) parents.

I'd also be curious if any of these good parents told their children how to feel, i.e., told them they had suffered a loss, told them they should feel sad about their adoption, etc. I'm going to guess that's a no? Instead, I imagine these good parents allowed you to develop your own feelings and then supported you in processing and dealing with those feelings, regardless of what they were. I certainly have no intention of telling my daughter she experienced a loss when she was removed from her biological mother and father. That's telling someone how to feel, and I don't do that to my children. But if she feels that way, I will be ok with that emotion and not try to make her feel that she is wrong for feeling that way like I see done here so very often.

That has been my personal experience with my adoptee friends in real life. Some felt they experienced a loss, and it mattered to them very much if their parents validated their feelings.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:00 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 15,354,667 times
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Do you think that if the woman doesn't want to parent the child, and the fathers not willing to either, (and one or the other won't give the child up for adoption)...the child will go into the foster system?
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:12 PM
 
393 posts, read 503,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffjoy View Post
Excellent.

I'm not going to weigh in on what I think about the Safe Haven Laws in particular as my opinions are currently in flux (so I really appreciate all this info, especially from adoptees who will always have a unique window into what being adopted actually feels like that no one else will understand) but I wanted to highlight this point.

I'm awfully tired of people trying to tell adoptees that it's how they were raised that determines if they feel they suffered a loss or not. If any adoptee would correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd like to reiterate once again that every adoptee here with one exception has repeatedly stated they have or had good (adoptive) parents.

I'd also be curious if any of these good parents told their children how to feel, i.e., told them they had suffered a loss, told them they should feel sad about their adoption, etc. I'm going to guess that's a no? Instead, I imagine these good parents allowed you to develop your own feelings and then supported you in processing and dealing with those feelings, regardless of what they were. I certainly have no intention of telling my daughter she experienced a loss when she was removed from her biological mother and father. That's telling someone how to feel, and I don't do that to my children. But if she feels that way, I will be ok with that emotion and not try to make her feel that she is wrong for feeling that way like I see done here so very often.

That has been my personal experience with my adoptee friends in real life. Some felt they experienced a loss, and it mattered to them very much if their parents validated their feelings.
You'd be correct...
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