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Old 05-20-2013, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,122 posts, read 3,494,368 times
Reputation: 2200

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
I never said bio/extended family are automatically superior to an adoptive family. That absolutely depends on the families.

That is why I said when it is possible for hardships to be overcome & keeping the child in the family is what is desired. Assuming we are not talking about neglectful or abusive families, yes, I do believe that is better.

Bio families can be worse than adoptive families, adoptive families can be worse than bio-families. Many people who were adopted have found their bio-families were much better off than their adoptive family. Why are people assuming the grandparents have less resources than the adoptive family?

I do not assume an adoptive family is automatically better just because they have more money. I don't believe children should be taken from families or given away if the only reason is that the family is not middle-class +. This includes all the adoptive families who have fallen on very hard times -- should their children be removed in those circumstances? No. Also, many adoptees have found their bio-families were better off than their adoptive families. Should excellent PAPs be denied the opportunity to adopt if they have less resources than the bio-family? No.
I don't at all assume that bio grandparents have less resources than the adoptive family. There are of course a lot of variables in both bio and adoptive families. I don't believe that children should be taken away from their families simply because they aren't middle class or because there may be a better family out there. When it comes to bio parents they, both the mother and father, should have a right to keep their children regardless of their situation as long as they don't abuse or neglect their child. I don't really think that right should be the same for extended family members. I'm sure there are many grandparents and other extended family that make great caretakers but going by a number of families I've seen I don't know that extended family's willingness and lack of abuse and neglect is good enough. When bio parents can't or won't parent wouldn't it be better to place the child with the family that is the best equipped, not only financially, to raise a child instead of placing with a willing family member just because the person is family?

I used to volunteer with an outreach bus and got to know a woman who was struggling off and on with a crack addiction. She had three kids that were in the care of her aunt who is the person that raised her. This aunt also cares for other grandchildren. She was willing to take the kids and has the resources to care for them (clothing, food and shelter). Although she's a kind woman with a big heart who doesn't mistreat them she is not good at raising kids (which is different than taking care of). The kids she's raising are going in the same direction as their parents that she also raised. When the oldest kid, a 14-year old boy, was arrested for selling crack it was not a big deal to anyone and nobody saw a reason to show up to his hearings in juvenile court. I even offered to drive them but both the mom and aunt couldn't see what difference it would make for them to go.
I really think these kids would have been better off adopted into a family who knew that raising kids involves more than clothing and feeding them. They are not being abused or neglected and they are with willing family but imo it's just not good enough.

 
Old 05-20-2013, 03:36 PM
 
1,014 posts, read 1,188,467 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post
I really think these kids would have been better off adopted into a family who knew that raising kids involves more than clothing and feeding them. They are not being abused or neglected and they are with willing family but imo it's just not good enough.
Of course being raised by a good family will always be better than being raised by a bad family.

So I agree when it comes to this specific example, but that is assuming the adoptive parents would know how to raise the children better than the biological family. What if they were adopted by people who could not raise them better? Unfortunately that happens, too. Then I think it would have been better to remain in their first family, although that obviously is not ideal either.

Last edited by thethreefoldme; 05-20-2013 at 03:54 PM..
 
Old 05-20-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,896 posts, read 32,199,228 times
Reputation: 67816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
Grandparents may be able to help or they may not. They may not be in the best of health, they may be retired living on fixed income, or they may want their freedom and not the burden of raising a baby again. If it is a teen pregnancy and the grandparents are relatively young, it may not be an issue at all. All depends on the situation.
Good point. I am relatively young though, and raising my grandchild will not happen. My teens need education, not babies.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 04:01 PM
 
1,014 posts, read 1,188,467 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
My teens need education, not babies.
No teen needs to have babies, but raising a baby & continuing education is not mutually exclusive.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 04:02 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,896 posts, read 32,199,228 times
Reputation: 67816
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I guess we will agree to disagree. Who am I? A girl who was almost in that position because of rape, but who grew up to be a well educated woman, even beginning grad school 2 weeks after chemo. I'm also a woman who works with foster care kids, several of whom became pregnant as teenagers. In my volunteer capacity, I cannot suggest ANY course of action, and while I do disagree that raising an infant as a teenager is not the best course of action, many of these teen moms are much better parents than my parents were. Age and financial security are not an automatic cure for family problems, nor do those factors necessarily doom a young family.

Again, if a teenager continues school while raising a child, it is beyond me how one could consider that anything BUT an accomplishment. It's certainly a much bigger accomplishment that my being awarded a $200K scholarship to an elite private school as a result of my educational achievements (which all happened pre-rape) in a fairly ideal family-scenario for academic performance.

Raising a child =/= sex. Period.
Are you serious? Having a baby in high school is a bigger accomplishment than being the recipient of a $200 scholarship? Really?

I may have just heard it all...
 
Old 05-20-2013, 04:04 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,896 posts, read 32,199,228 times
Reputation: 67816
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethreefoldme View Post
No teen needs to have babies, but raising babies & continuing education are not mutually exclusive.

Raising a CHILD while one is yet a CHILD is wrong and selfish.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 04:08 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 7,214,079 times
Reputation: 11987
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Huh? I do support sex education and birth control. My question was simple - are there people who believe that teen pregnancy should be supported and promoted as an option. And if so, please defend your position.

Adoption exists and will continue to exist because some people have difficulty becoming pregnant and want to have children.

Birth control and sex education were the last two things that would have helped me to build my family!
However I totally support them for sexually active individuals who want to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.
You missed my first pick out which would be a termination...however if it is the choice between the two, I believe the teenager should be given all the help she needs to keep her baby.

It's actually not about the teenager, or the morality, or the cost to society, or the potential adoptive parents.

It's about the baby.

Babies are almost always better off with their own parents. Adoption is NOT ideal.

Don't believe me? Check out the crime/suicide/drug abuse stats for adoptees - it isn't pretty.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 04:12 PM
 
1,014 posts, read 1,188,467 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Raising a CHILD while one is yet a CHILD is wrong and selfish.
That is one opinion. Another is that forcing people to give their children up for adoption, or parents refusing to teach their teens how to be responsible parents is wrong & selfish.

Last edited by thethreefoldme; 05-20-2013 at 04:39 PM..
 
Old 05-20-2013, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,744 posts, read 4,213,312 times
Reputation: 6503
Quote:
Originally Posted by brushrunner View Post
Well me and my first wife married when she was 16.My Mom was 15 and a neighbor was 12.She became Grandma at 24.My Daughter left home at 15.

Don't have a problem with any of it.

brushrunner
Hmm. Some how I am not at all surprised about this.
 
Old 05-20-2013, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,744 posts, read 4,213,312 times
Reputation: 6503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
To me, supporting teenage pregnancy and motherhood includes stepping in as the grandparent or extended family member, for the sole purpose of keeping the child within the bio-family, and acting as that child's parent. You are not the child's parent, and by removing the responsibility of parenting from the birthmother/father, you also help increase the chances that a repeat unplanned pregnancy will occur. Most teens who become pregnant and keep the child have a second child within two years. Sometimes, while still being a "teenager."

When my aunt became pregnant as a teen, my GM allowed her to make the decision on what she wanted to do. However, she never had any support in the way of "I'll help you get to the place you need to be to parent, or, I'll raise my grandchild." This was not an option. If she had decided to parent her child, it would have been on her own. Some people find this cold and harsh, I find it to be the best way to allow teenagers to experience the consequences of their actions. To this day, my aunt has never regretted her decision to plan for an adoption for her child. She ended up finishing school, getting a great state job, marrying, and having two additional children. Her adopted child has his family, and she has hers.

IMO, we are at times too hopeful for our own good, even when the data is staring us in the face! In the most developed countries that mirror the U.S., teen pregnancy and motherhood is nearly non-existent. One glaring reason for this is because culturally and socially, it is unacceptable in those countries. When we get to the point where we can say with a straight face and no rationalizations, that "it is irresponsible and embarrassing" for teenagers to even think they CAN parent, let alone become pregnant, I believe we will see a true drop in our numbers nationwide.

When I hear or read about teenagers and very young girls talk about getting pregnant (when they are unwed, unemployed, and even still a dependent) instead of education, having fun with their girlfriends, traveling, or even planning a career, I actually want to cry. The reality of their fantasy world is too much for me to bear.


They are synonymous to me too. As a grandparent the act of "helping" a child to keep the baby in the family is form of support of teen pregnancy and teen parenting.. It's selfish.

Also, the situation that Linmora presented in her post upthread frequently occurs. I worked with a woman who's daughter, at sixteen became pregnant. The girl was interested in the baby for about six months. All she does now is party, and most of the parenting is done by the grandparents, an older sister of the girl, and an aunt. Both the grandparents need to continue to work. The baby has multiple and reluctant caregivers. The grandparents are in their early 60s and this is their youngest child. They regret letting her keep the little boy but now they are attached.

The grandfather wants to have him put up for adoption.

The whole situation is a mess. With all of these caregivers, I have wondered if the boy is at risk of RAD.

This situation seems to never have a happy ending.

Last edited by warren zee; 05-20-2013 at 04:46 PM..
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