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Old 06-13-2013, 09:18 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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**I moved this topic because it's worth discussing and it came up in another thread**

I once witnessed a Foster "parent" abusing a child. And the foster sister told me that the bio son was abusing her - sexually.

I called CPS and they didn't believe me. They maintained that they were a "model foster family".

There are Fundamentalist Christians who adopt as a means of Evangelizing. They adopt for Christ.

Look I am a christian, a church member and a leader. I'm not the Anti Christ. Far from it. But adopting a child for money or to convert him, makes me ILL!

Last edited by Jaded; 06-15-2013 at 02:17 AM.. Reason: Edited to add the Reason for creating this thread
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:53 AM
 
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On the other hand - I know of many conservative Christian families who neither beat their children (adopted or bio.) or attempt to "pray away" their issues. These families tend to adopt children with special needs because they are aware of the terrible conditions in which such children live in many countries in the developing world, and because as Christians, they feel that they are obeying God's will in "caring for widows and orphans" and in providing loving, caring homes and families for children who otherwise would be left to spend their lives in bleak orphanages and instititions, where care is minimal and love is non-existent.

Conversion or salvation not really a huge concern for most of such parents, who believe in a loving and compassionate God and in a Savior who loved little children - many of these children do not have the intellectual capacity to comprehend religious beliefs, and are viewed as innocents by their parents in this regard. Others can be taught simple prayers and Bible stories, but "saving souls" is not the motivation for adoption in most cases. Saving lives can be. As with most adoptive families, wanting children is usually the primary motivation for adoption, and knowing the terrible conditions in which orphaned and abandoned children with disabilities live in far too many places around the world, simply adds to many adoptive families' sense of urgency to adopt.

Last edited by CraigCreek; 06-14-2013 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
On the other hand - I know of many conservative Christian families who neither beat their children (adopted or bio.) or attempt to "pray away" their issues. These families tend to adopt children with special needs because they are aware of the terrible conditions in which such children live in many countries in the developing world, and because as Christians, they feel that they are obeying God's will in "caring for widows and orphans" and in providing loving, caring homes and families for children who otherwise would be left to spend their lives in bleak orphanages and instititions, where care is minimal and love is non-existent.

Conversion or salvation not really a huge concern for most of such parents, who believe in a loving and compassionate God and in a Savior who loved little children - many of these children do not have the intellectual capacity to comprehend religious beliefs, and are viewed as innocents by their parents in this regard. Others can be taught simple prayers and Bible stories, but "saving souls" is not the motivation for adoption in most cases. Saving lives can be. As with most adoptive families, wanting children is usually the primary motivation for adoption, and knowing the terrible conditions in which orphaned and abandoned children with disabilities live in far too many places around the world, simply adds to many adoptive families' sense of urgency to adopt.
I agree. Not all Fundamentalist families beat their children. I know families who have over two or three children with special needs, and the children are all doing extremely well. They're flourishing in their families.
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Old 06-14-2013, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
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Many do though.

I don't mean any disrespect towards people who are Fundamentalists, but there is truth to this. There is a movement among fundy Christians to adopt vast quantities of kids so that they can convert them for Christ.

My wife is very devout and I understand her religious views. Through her and her church I'm understanding more.

But - there is a movement that ULTRA FUNDIES ascribe to. They want everyone to accept Jusus and soon so that the world will end and Jesus will come again.

The Duggers fall into this category. I think that they are called Dominion Christians.

They really have no love for the child as a human being. It's about conversion to their type of Christianity.

Special needs kids are often their target and these kids can't always speak for themselves. There is a lot of abuse inside many really hard core conservative Christian families.

There are many who live off their kids. That's plain wrong.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:17 PM
 
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To me, it isn't so much the size of the families but more the way that some families undertake the adoptions. To me there are two red flags to watch out for:

Red flag 1: When one child is brought back home and then they go straight out to adopt another and then another without any of the children having been given a change to settle in.

Red flag 2: When they adopt way out of birth order - for example, they have lots of children under the age of the new adoptee.

Often it is done as a case of "rescuing" a child without any thought as to the actual raising of the child and any special needs they might have. This article is about the growing evangelical movement re adoption:

Orphan Fever: The Evangelical Movement's Adoption Obsession | Mother Jones

To be fair, not all are out to "rescue" and thus each case should be treated on their own merits.

Wwhere I don't think a large family is so much a problem would be if the children are mostly grown and out of the home and the parents adopt a sibling group and are able to concentrate on them. Another would be if the child is an older child being fostered, enjoys the experience of living with that large family and then wishes to be adopted by them (i.e. knowing what they are getting into).
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:52 AM
 
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In general, I agree that it's usually best to respect birth order when adopting, but when a child is developmentally delayed, that can change the picture considerably. It also depends on the child, the family, and sometimes the size of the family - I know of an American family who successfully adopted a beautiful, very sweet-natured little girl who just turned ten (from Russia, about six months ago, shortly before the shutdown), along with an unrelated baby boy who was about a year and a half old when he was adopted. They had a bio. toddler son at home.

Everything has gone swimmingly - big sister adores the two little ones, as they do her. In this case, the two little guys are playmates, while big sister is old enough to share many of her parents' activities and hobbies: cooking, gardening, sewing, photography, bicycling, crafts, swimming, etc. She is also making new friends in her own age range, while continuing to greatly enjoy spending time with her two little brothers and her parents.

Neither of the children is developmentally delayed (other than expected orphanage delays) - the two newest family members have a chronic health condition which is being successfully treated with simple daily meds. They also were underweight and anemic when they came home, and the baby was very, very sad-faced initially and was rather withdrawn.

Once home, the little girl just couldn't believe that these were her new clothes, toys, books, etc. - "for ME??" was her constant query at first. She bonded to her new parents almost immediately, and has remained very closely attached to them - attachment took longer with the baby, who had not received adequate individual attention in Russia. (nor had the little girl, but she is a strong and optimistic child who never lost hope that her family would find her).

So - birth order is a consideration, but it doesn't predict the future accurately in every case. As always, each child and each family is unique, and adoption plans should take this into account.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
In general, I agree that it's usually best to respect birth order when adopting, but when a child is developmentally delayed, that can change the picture considerably. It also depends on the child, the family, and sometimes the size of the family - I know of an American family who successfully adopted a beautiful, very sweet-natured little girl who just turned ten (from Russia, about six months ago, shortly before the shutdown), along with an unrelated baby boy who was about a year and a half old when he was adopted. They had a bio. toddler son at home.

Everything has gone swimmingly - big sister adores the two little ones, as they do her. In this case, the two little guys are playmates, while big sister is old enough to share many of her parents' activities and hobbies: cooking, gardening, sewing, photography, bicycling, crafts, swimming, etc. She is also making new friends in her own age range, while continuing to greatly enjoy spending time with her two little brothers and her parents.

Neither of the children is developmentally delayed (other than expected orphanage delays) - the two newest family members have a chronic health condition which is being successfully treated with simple daily meds. They also were underweight and anemic when they came home, and the baby was very, very sad-faced initially and was rather withdrawn.

Once home, the little girl just couldn't believe that these were her new clothes, toys, books, etc. - "for ME??" was her constant query at first. She bonded to her new parents almost immediately, and has remained very closely attached to them - attachment took longer with the baby, who had not received adequate individual attention in Russia. (nor had the little girl, but she is a strong and optimistic child who never lost hope that her family would find her).

So - birth order is a consideration, but it doesn't predict the future accurately in every case. As always, each child and each family is unique, and adoption plans should take this into account.
Yes. That family is doing absolutely wonderfully.

I honestly don't think this adopting in order to convert thing is a huge movement, as I'm just not seeing it.

Also, yes, some Fundamentalists beat their kids. Guess what. Some atheists, Lutherans, Muslims, Catholics, etc beat their kids, too.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:39 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Back to the topic.

The Dominion Movement. And Fundamentalist Christians who adopt to hasten the End of the World? Yes, there are.

Others adopt to look "holy" and "righteous before God". Christians of almost any stripe LOVE large families! They celebrate families with many children.

They celebrate them by birth and by adoption.

There is a verse, I think in Isaiah that says that God will bring your children from the East to the West.

This has nothing to do with adoption, but the "cut and paste Christians" have claimed this verse for them. It isn't.

There ARE people who adopt kids for the WRONG REASONS! As a parent by adoption, I won't protect them, I'll expose them.

It's the Christian thing to do.
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Kansas
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Here is an article: The Evangelical Adoption Crusade | The Nation and I wasn't aware this involved international adoptions. I found the comment about how the kids didn't even recognize the flag from the country where they were born but could sing "Jesus Loves Me", well, I don't have words to say what I think of that comment. Adding: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/us/moved-to-adopt-evangelicals-find-children-and-pitfalls-abroad.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
and I liked this best: http://www.creatingafamily.org/blog/...tion-movement/ because it really looks at the issues.

Last edited by AnywhereElse; 06-16-2013 at 01:38 PM..
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,678 posts, read 23,284,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
Here is an article: The Evangelical Adoption Crusade | The Nation and I wasn't aware this involved international adoptions. I found the comment about how the kids didn't even recognize the flag from the country where they were born but could sing "Jesus Loves Me", well, I don't have words to say what I think of that comment. Adding: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/us/moved-to-adopt-evangelicals-find-children-and-pitfalls-abroad.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
and I liked this best: The Biggest Challenges Facing the Evangelical Orphan/Adoption Movement because it really looks at the issues.
Are we the only people who won't deny that this exists???

I'm a member of a church that is evangelical and spirit filled. Yet I'm a centrist to liberal Democrat.

This Dominion Movement and the Quiverfull movements EXIST. Having HUGE FAMILIES is part of their agenda.

This is neither intended as a "black eye" for adoption, for Christians or for anyone.

But I do have some harsh words and feelings for those who adopt "souls" - not people, children who they intend to love as they would biological kids.

There are numerous links to this. AnywhereElse has kindly provided some. Would have given you rep but I couldn't.

There are many more.
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