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Old 07-17-2013, 09:06 AM
 
16,568 posts, read 14,010,954 times
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**Split from another thread**

If you agree that these people exist, and that there motives are frequently financial. How is an adoption tax credit beneficial to children? It attracts people who adopt children for financial reasons, who then do not spend the money on the children.

People who really are adopting for the right reasons would do so without a tax credit.

Last edited by Jaded; 07-18-2013 at 06:56 PM.. Reason: Added split thread info
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:36 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552
Because it helps the middle class to adopt. That's progressive. The reason people adopt should be nearly identical to the reason people have children through biology. A family - or a larger one.

PAYING people to house children that they do not love is REGRESSIVE and socially destructive.

On a micro level, it's destructive to children.

I am all for permanency, and all for adoption. I am also ALL FOR the SWIFT TERMINATION of parental rights of related people who have inflicted abuse on their children that is heinous.

No second chances.

However, unemployed people who live off foster children - or the adoption of a double digit quantity of children?

Thumbs down.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:54 PM
 
16,568 posts, read 14,010,954 times
Reputation: 20518
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Because it helps the middle class to adopt. That's progressive. The reason people adopt should be nearly identical to the reason people have children through biology. A family - or a larger one.

PAYING people to house children that they do not love is REGRESSIVE and socially destructive.

On a micro level, it's destructive to children.

I am all for permanency, and all for adoption. I am also ALL FOR the SWIFT TERMINATION of parental rights of related people who have inflicted abuse on their children that is heinous.

No second chances.

However, unemployed people who live off foster children - or the adoption of a double digit quantity of children?

Thumbs down.
You did not answer my question. I will ask again.

You have stated someone people adopt for financial reasons, wouldn't removing those financial benefit stop people who shouldn't be adopting from adopting?

As for middle class, if adoptive parents are just regular old parents, why do they get all the tax credits regular parents get PLUS additional financial incentives?

Also, just to check, you are against any benefit that are geared towards teen parents or to keep poor families together, right?
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:45 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552
I did explain it. You did not understand it.

I'll try again.

Middle income people who have children by birth can use insurance to have their child.

When they need to adopt, because they want a larger family, there is no insurance.
The tax credit is helpful.
However, they will still need the money "up front".

We receive no continuing benefits for our child through adoption.

If the child qualified for SSD (disability payments) we would receive benefits for either child, because we are their parents.

What is wrong is to adopt in order to obtain these benefits, or for personal or pseudo spiritual glory.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:31 PM
 
16,568 posts, read 14,010,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I did explain it. You did not understand it.

I'll try again.

Middle income people who have children by birth can use insurance to have their child.

When they need to adopt, because they want a larger family, there is no insurance.
The tax credit is helpful.
However, they will still need the money "up front".
That is an absolutely horrible analogy. Middle class people have insurance BECAUSE THEY PAY FOR IT. When they have a pregnancy, they actual pay more for their insurance. That is the opposite of a tax credit.

Using insurance you pay for to have a child is completely different than using a tax refund to pay for adoption costs. The taxpayers are not subsidizing the average middle class families pregnancy but you think we should be paying for adoption costs.

If we know, as you have stated, that giving financial incentives to adopting families, encourages many of them (according to you) to adopt for the wrong reasons, than we should get rid of that incentive.

After all wouldn't you have adopted your children anyway? So why should adoptive parents get benefits biological parents do not, especially when we know it causes people to adopt for the wrong reasons.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,187 posts, read 14,950,488 times
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The tax rebates for adoption were set up to help people who could afford children but not the expenses of the adoption. For the waiting kids in the US, we are already paying for them and it will actually cost much less when they are adopted even though the tax rebate and adoption assistance is taxpayer supported. I would gladly pay more taxes to support waiting children getting placed in homes. Yes, some adopt for financial benefit just as some parents, especially those on public assistance, have more children to get more bennies.

Teen mothers are given many benefits. If they are capable and have the desire, I have seen many parenting so I don't see the issue here. Seriously, what does one think should be done for a teen mom. What support do you think they should get? I have seen them get apartments, cash, food stamps, education, classes in parenting......................

Most of the kids being adopted are not infants. Too often, while mom is trying to get her act together, the children are held, I have seen 8 plus years and have been in numerous foster homes. Now, who got the short end of the stick while they were trying to help mom?
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:05 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552
My adoption cost less than my birth. I did not pay for my insurance - it was a benefit of my husband's employment.

I am all for the adoption tax credit.

I am also all for children being removed from abusive homes and adopted by competent, loving parents.

I am all for adoptive parents, who wanted and planned for children to be given favor over, oh say a teenaged girl who did not plan for it.

Moderator Cut.

Last edited by Jaded; 07-27-2013 at 11:14 AM.. Reason: DM me for reason
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:12 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,126,842 times
Reputation: 48552
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
The tax rebates for adoption were set up to help people who could afford children but not the expenses of the adoption. For the waiting kids in the US, we are already paying for them and it will actually cost much less when they are adopted even though the tax rebate and adoption assistance is taxpayer supported. I would gladly pay more taxes to support waiting children getting placed in homes. Yes, some adopt for financial benefit just as some parents, especially those on public assistance, have more children to get more bennies.

Teen mothers are given many benefits. If they are capable and have the desire, I have seen many parenting so I don't see the issue here. Seriously, what does one think should be done for a teen mom. What support do you think they should get? I have seen them get apartments, cash, food stamps, education, classes in parenting......................

Most of the kids being adopted are not infants. Too often, while mom is trying to get her act together, the children are held, I have seen 8 plus years and have been in numerous foster homes. Now, who got the short end of the stick while they were trying to help mom?

I agree. Teen mothers are given ALL KINDS OFF BENEFITS! I don't think that they should be given any benefits at all. I don't want my children going to school - high school - with sexually active or pregnant children.

They should be treated as juvenile delinquents. Having sex while a minor is against the law.

I agree with everything that you said.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:04 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,980,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
People who really are adopting for the right reasons would do so without a tax credit.

They did, for many years. It was set up to help children be placed who were waiting and there were good families who wanted to adopt. The tax credit - it's not a full refund - allows adoptive families to recoup some the costs incurred during their adoption process and cannot be claimed until after finalization of the adoption. This could take years. So, people wishing to adopt still must pay up-front costs. They do not receive a tax credit if no adoption occurs; they are left with no recourse on monies spent.

Wouldn't you agree that this helps prevent abuse of the tax credit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
The tax rebates for adoption were set up to help people who could afford children but not the expenses of the adoption. For the waiting kids in the US, we are already paying for them and it will actually cost much less when they are adopted even though the tax rebate and adoption assistance is taxpayer supported. I would gladly pay more taxes to support waiting children getting placed in homes. Yes, some adopt for financial benefit just as some parents, especially those on public assistance, have more children to get more bennies.

Teen mothers are given many benefits. If they are capable and have the desire, I have seen many parenting so I don't see the issue here. Seriously, what does one think should be done for a teen mom. What support do you think they should get? I have seen them get apartments, cash, food stamps, education, classes in parenting......................

Most of the kids being adopted are not infants. Too often, while mom is trying to get her act together, the children are held, I have seen 8 plus years and have been in numerous foster homes. Now, who got the short end of the stick while they were trying to help mom?
Very true. Between Medicaid and services given during reunification efforts, this amounts to millions of dollars every year, per state.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:00 PM
 
16,568 posts, read 14,010,954 times
Reputation: 20518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
They did, for many years. It was set up to help children be placed who were waiting and there were good families who wanted to adopt. The tax credit - it's not a full refund - allows adoptive families to recoup some the costs incurred during their adoption process and cannot be claimed until after finalization of the adoption. This could take years. So, people wishing to adopt still must pay up-front costs. They do not receive a tax credit if no adoption occurs; they are left with no recourse on monies spent.

Wouldn't you agree that this helps prevent abuse of the tax credit?
Clearly not, as it is APs admitting that there are people who adopt for monetary reasons. I am not the one making that claim.



Quote:
Very true. Between Medicaid and services given during reunification efforts, this amounts to millions of dollars every year, per state.
Well there are some 200K (isn) adoptions a year and those parents can claim $12.5k so that is millions too.
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