U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting > Adoption
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-23-2014, 01:25 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 92,332,249 times
Reputation: 30387

Advertisements

I agree that CPS's first goal is to return children with their parents. It doesn't matter if the parents are biological or adoptive parents. CPS prefers to see families intact whenever possible.

In my state, a 16 year old doesn't get any help unless the child breaks the law. The system is too overburdened to help a 16 year old who is homeless due to parents kicking them out into the streets. But a 16 year old who is reported as a runaway gets help because they broke the law by running away. This happened with two children who were friends of my children.

One's biological parents kicked him out and he ended up living with us. The high school guidance counselor said he has an abundance of teenagers who CPS won't help once they're past 16. He lived with us until he graduated from high school and the following summer after graduation because he needed to recover from hand surgery. He was welcome to continue living here while he attended college, but he preferred getting a factory job and a place of his own. None of this was official through the courts or anything. We simply took in a homeless teenager, helped him graduate high school and rehabilitate after surgery, and start his life. This child still does not speak to his parents, and he struggles financially. If the authorities had gotten involved, he may have had a relationship with his parents today.

The other was a girl whose adoptive parents reported her as a runaway. When she was arrested and taken to juvenile detention center, she got help from social workers. She was returned to her house, but her parents were under strict orders to allow her to leave her house daily. (She was a virtual prisoner prior to running away.) She moved out the day she turned 18 and lived on her own for a few years. I ran into her last week, and she has reconciled with her parents. She's living there again while she goes to college. And I think this is an excellent example why it's important to try to reunite children with parents (biological or adoptive) because it's very possible the relationship can be restored to a healthy one.

Sheena, what you describe isn't an adoption vs. biological parent issue. There is no adoptive parent in the story of the neighbor boy you helped. CPS tries to return children to their homes. That is the first goal. It has nothing to do with biology. I've seen an adopted child returned to her adoptive parents and a biological child not helped at all whatsoever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-23-2014, 02:38 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,678 posts, read 23,258,366 times
Reputation: 48876
That's in your state, Hopes.

In my former state, a minor has the right to stay in school and graduate from high school until he is 18 at least and to receive financial support and shelter. That is usually from the parents. It could be from a foster home, a relative, or even a friend , as long as truancy is not involved and he is not breaking the law.

We were awarded emergency guardianship of the boy. Our house was inspected and we underwent background checks and an emergency home study was conducted.

There were people willing to foster the boy. His emergency guardians. That was my husband and myself. He wanted to live with us.

He was not deemed a runaway. His parents knew exactly where he was. He was not a delinquent as defined by that state. He attended school more regularly while living with us.

Even without the vicious and documented most recent beating, he had the right to live with whom ever he wanted - as long as he was attending school and not breaking the law. Not a "juvenile delinquent".

He wanted to be our foster son. The CASA volunteer did not listen to him. She did not want him to live anywhere but with his abuser.

So, she did not do her job.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 05:07 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 92,332,249 times
Reputation: 30387
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
That's in your state, Hopes.

In my former state, a minor has the right to stay in school and graduate from high school until he is 18 at least and to receive financial support and shelter. That is usually from the parents. It could be from a foster home, a relative, or even a friend , as long as truancy is not involved and he is not breaking the law.
Minors have that right in my state too. It doesn't mean the system does anything about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
We were awarded emergency guardianship of the boy. Our house was inspected and we underwent background checks and an emergency home study was conducted.

There were people willing to foster the boy. His emergency guardians. That was my husband and myself. He wanted to live with us.
But you weren't willing to foster his siblings when it's important for siblings to stay together. It's not right to pick and chose children and break up siblings. Biological parents don't chose which children they get. Why don't you foster another child from the system instead of picking one from your neighborhood? Surely there are other children needing foster parents, right?

Unrelated to your story, I'm uncomfortable with the foster system paying foster parents. My husband and I took a child into our home without fostering. We gladly paid for everything ourselves. I wouldn't feel right making money off of a child. I wouldn't take in a child I couldn't support on our own income. For me, that would be like giving birth to more children than we could afford.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 06:38 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,678 posts, read 23,258,366 times
Reputation: 48876
We were not "unwilling" either. We didn't know them. They were not seeking our help, nor were they in the system available to be fostered.

The boy reported the abuse that all three children received, along with the condition of the house.

I did not "pick one from my neighborhood". I wasn't even thinking about foster care. A neighbor boy who cut our grass came to us for help. Many others in the neighborhood did not want to hire him for that task for fear of involvement with the father.

Your statement is absurd. You make it sound as though DH and I went driving around our subdivision looking for badly beaten children. Did you read what I wrote or are you just trying to be snarky?

"Adoptive parents get to chose their children"

That's only sometimes true. And in a limited way. Adoptive parents of older children do "get to choose their children", to some degree. It's nothing like ordering a child in an "American Girl" catalog. We also get to be scrutinized with in an inch of our lives.

Would you trade that for fertility? Out of pure curiosity? Fertile people can and do adopt.

BTW,I didn't choose my daughter. She was an infant. We chose the country.

Considering my condition, my biological son was a miracle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 06:53 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 92,332,249 times
Reputation: 30387
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
We were not "unwilling" either. We didn't know them.
You said you weren't interested in taking in his sisters. See that portion of your post below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
What he needed was for someone to believe him. He also wanted his younger sisters removed. we were not interested in taking in these girls, but we shared his fear for their safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
...are you just trying to be snarky?
I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm trying to make sense of what you shared. It's great you tried to help him. It was unsettling to read that you would foster him, but you weren't interested in his siblings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
[b]"[i]Adoptive parents get to chose their children"
Why did you put this sentence in quotes? I did not write that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2014, 11:46 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,678 posts, read 23,258,366 times
Reputation: 48876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
You said you weren't interested in taking in his sisters. See that portion of your post below:




I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm trying to make sense of what you shared. It's great you tried to help him. It was unsettling to read that you would foster him, but you weren't interested in his siblings.


Why did you put this sentence in quotes? I did not write that.

1. I refer back to what I wrote. I was not "looking" or "seeking" to adopt or foster anyone. He came to us. They did not. They were not in the foster care system. Do you understand that?

2. Why was that unsettling to you? Frequently people do not adopt entire families. You do not need to like it. It happens. Again, they were not available for adoption or foster care. Nor did they seek asylum.

3. I don't know. That was what I remembered that you said. This is not a thesis.

Now I have questions for you. You know why I am passionate about adoption.

Why does adoption, and the happiness it has brought to me and countless others appear to threaten or upset you so?

Unless you have adopted yourself, or attempted to do so, the degree of passion about the subject seems exaggerated; almost obsessive.

Perhaps you have had children removed from your care. Or perhaps you did not pass a home study.
You hate adoption so much, and have focused so much time on this forum as of late, that either one of these would be my guess.

I am passionate about adoption. I have obvious reasons for that. It has enriched my life. I have advocated and found homes for over 20 children. My undergraduate and graduate degrees are in the social sciences. Consider me passionate.

What shall I consider you, exactly? You accused me of looking around my neighborhood for children to adopt.

Please do not confuse me with Madonna. She refused a home study and essentially bought a little boy from an impoverished African country.

There is a case of "wrongful adoption" if there ever was one.

Still, I can't comprehend your deeply passionate, and time consuming interest in this subject.

After so many impassioned and accusatory posts, insinuating wrong doing and ulterior motives on the part of adoptive parents (I don't take this personally at all. Seen it before.) there must be a reason why adoption disturbs you so.

Please share.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2014, 04:59 AM
 
43,012 posts, read 92,332,249 times
Reputation: 30387
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Why does adoption, and the happiness it has brought to me and countless others appear to threaten or upset you so?
Adoption doesn't upset me in the least. The Hodgin's attempt to legalize the kidnapping of Sonya upsets me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Unless you have adopted yourself, or attempted to do so, the degree of passion about the subject seems exaggerated; almost obsessive.
You're allowed to be obsessive about this case and others aren't? Are you more personally connected in real life to Sonya, the Hodgins or Sonya's father than the rest of us? Are you one of their relatives, friends, etc.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Perhaps you have had children removed from your care. Or perhaps you did not pass a home study.
Funny!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
You hate adoption so much, and have focused so much time on this forum as of late, that either one of these would be my guess.
As of late? I have almost 40,000 posts since 2007. I'm always passionate and prolific about any topic. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
What shall I consider you, exactly?
Someone who sees injustice in what the Hodgin's did to Sonya, just like thousands and thousands of other people across America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2014, 08:23 AM
 
1,097 posts, read 1,734,097 times
Reputation: 1591
It's unfortunate that some are unable to defend their position on a particular case without resorting to questioning the character & motivation of those who hold an opposing view. A neat trick - challenging someone to defend themselves and not the merits of their argument, as well as extrapolating personal experience as some kind of authority.

All parents need to depend on a consistent and fairly applied legal system. You can debate what the laws should be and change them if enough people agree with you to do that - but custody laws are important to every parent.

The father was not unfit, in jail, not working, nor abusive, when this child was not returned to him from TN. He had been awarded custody in NE. What might have happened had she been returned then is more speculation either way- it didn't happen. Everything else built on that initial lack of due diligence & to my mind sours any subsequent 'claims'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I really wish I could understand the desire of some people to "reunite" a child with father who has been convicted of a violent felony. Illegally transporting firearms across state lines is a violent felony. There is a "back story" here.

You see, I don't automatically believe that a child is best off with biological parents. In fact, there are some parents a child is better off having completely out of their lives.
There may be a back-story, but no one here is privy to it. His mother gave her version of it, but no one who is on the foster parents' "team" would give any credence to his mother. The courts do know the circumstances.

I agree that there are parents, be they bio, foster, or adoptive, that some kids would be better off without. Problem is that neither you nor I nor millions of others with their own particular beliefs,standards, prejudices, etc will always agree on which parents those are. We can't even agree on what constitutes child abuse [at least the finer points]. These relationships have legal ramifications, and therefore need to be codified in some way. They need to be dependable, transparent, and much as possible free of the pressures of emotions,money,politics, religion. A hard standard to live up to. What we have left to hope for is a careful application of laws.



I'll admit it goes back to an issue that always bothers me - consistency across states. TN is the only state which has no time conditions for residency. To most this child would have seemed a resident of the state she normally resided in and the states would cooperate in these matters. NE would also have reviewed her status and that of her father's custody and that would have been the end of it.

Every parent needs to depend on a consistent legal system.

Later in the case: NE law states that parental rights cannot be terminated solely because a parent is incarcerated. They may refrain from petitioning if a relative is caring for the child.

Every parent needs to depend on a consistent legal system.

I 'defend' the father on legalities, not because I pretend know every detail of his or anyone's else's lives, but because I want to depend on a consistent legal system & choose not to defend those who try to game it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2014, 09:03 AM
 
13,170 posts, read 20,800,491 times
Reputation: 35478
Quote:
Originally Posted by nj185 View Post

Every parent needs to depend on a consistent legal system.

I 'defend' the father on legalities, not because I pretend know every detail of his or anyone's else's lives, but because I want to depend on a consistent legal system & choose not to defend those who try to game it.
Well said .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2014, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
21,873 posts, read 23,160,111 times
Reputation: 37276
^^^Exactly
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting > Adoption
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top