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Old 12-13-2015, 07:11 PM
 
258 posts, read 157,876 times
Reputation: 334

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Because there is a strong correlation that is likely causative between socioeconomic status and likelihood of a child being placed in foster care. There is also a strong correlation between single parent status and socioeconomic status. But that is easily disproven as the causative against by controlling for socioeconomic status, when that is done single parents are no more likely to have issues with foster care than married parents.
Thank you for your posting. I did not see any solutions documented in your posting as to why these are so many single parent cases listed in our Citizen Review Hearing. I'm amazed at the resources provided to our cases and yet children remain in foster care. I would love to see your solutions to this perplexing problem.
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:24 PM
 
16,565 posts, read 14,001,677 times
Reputation: 20517
Quote:
Originally Posted by xy340 View Post
Thank you for your posting. I did not see any solutions documented in your posting as to why these are so many single parent cases listed in our Citizen Review Hearing. I'm amazed at the resources provided to our cases and yet children remain in foster care. I would love to see your solutions to this perplexing problem.
What you have just presented is called a strawman argument. It is a logical fallacy.

Just because your logical leaps are not based on anything more than anecdotes does not make them right. They also are no less wrong because I do not have a solution to a problem that has existed for literally millenia, since what you are actually asking for is a solution to child abuse and poverty. Regardless, the solution to child abuse and poverty is clearly not adoption. Just because you feel like you should be given one or two or whatever of these children does not mean you are entitled to them.

Try to keep in mind that your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to is not fact and should not be treated with the same weight as facts. Would you actual read the lit I posted about SES and child outcomes? Somehow I doubt it, but if you really want me to I can.

Adoption is one way to be a family. It is no more or less valuable a way to be family than any other, including non-traditional ways. But just because you feel entitled to a child doesn't mean you are. Life is unfair, sometime you don't get what you want, but as an adult, if you let that turn you into someone who feels they have the right to define who is or is not a family, or who should or should not be allowed to have a child, then maybe it is the universe making decisions itself.
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Old 12-14-2015, 06:17 AM
 
258 posts, read 157,876 times
Reputation: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
What you have just presented is called a strawman argument. It is a logical fallacy.

Just because your logical leaps are not based on anything more than anecdotes does not make them right. They also are no less wrong because I do not have a solution to a problem that has existed for literally millenia, since what you are actually asking for is a solution to child abuse and poverty. Regardless, the solution to child abuse and poverty is clearly not adoption. Just because you feel like you should be given one or two or whatever of these children does not mean you are entitled to them.

Try to keep in mind that your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to is not fact and should not be treated with the same weight as facts. Would you actual read the lit I posted about SES and child outcomes? Somehow I doubt it, but if you really want me to I can.

Adoption is one way to be a family. It is no more or less valuable a way to be family than any other, including non-traditional ways. But just because you feel entitled to a child doesn't mean you are. Life is unfair, sometime you don't get what you want, but as an adult, if you let that turn you into someone who feels they have the right to define who is or is not a family, or who should or should not be allowed to have a child, then maybe it is the universe making decisions itself.
I was trying to be polite. Your argument is a rant. I guess politeness is taken as a form on weakness. So if you have all the answers on child abuse and poverty why don't you implement them. That way you can show everyone what an idiot I am and how smart you are. I've read a great deal of these social work papers and most of them are junk. Bottom line is that while our community provides a huge amount of support to single parents, most of them just don't want the support or the responsibilities that come with having a child. Foster care is a poor vehicle to raise children in. Why don't you post articles disproving that. Group home suck at raising children. Again, why don't you post articles disproving that. Foster homes don't provide permanency. Any articles disproving that? A large number of people volunteer a great deal of time and attend a great deal of fundraisers to help our community deal with these problems. At some point, it is obvious as to what works and what does not.
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Old 12-14-2015, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Maryland
912 posts, read 641,985 times
Reputation: 1078
Quote:
Originally Posted by xy340 View Post
I was trying to be polite. Your argument is a rant. I guess politeness is taken as a form on weakness. So if you have all the answers on child abuse and poverty why don't you implement them. That way you can show everyone what an idiot I am and how smart you are. I've read a great deal of these social work papers and most of them are junk. Bottom line is that while our community provides a huge amount of support to single parents, most of them just don't want the support or the responsibilities that come with having a child. Foster care is a poor vehicle to raise children in. Why don't you post articles disproving that. Group home suck at raising children. Again, why don't you post articles disproving that. Foster homes don't provide permanency. Any articles disproving that? A large number of people volunteer a great deal of time and attend a great deal of fundraisers to help our community deal with these problems. At some point, it is obvious as to what works and what does not.
Apparently, in your eyes, posting your opinions vs facts on a messageboard is what works. How about carrying on with doing something productive about it instead? Sorry you were denied an adopted child, but these rants of yours founded in little to no fact aren't helping anyone.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
1,539 posts, read 1,709,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Because there is a strong correlation that is likely causative between socioeconomic status and likelihood of a child being placed in foster care. There is also a strong correlation between single parent status and socioeconomic status. But that is easily disproven as the causative against by controlling for socioeconomic status, when that is done single parents are no more likely to have issues with foster care than married parents.


Excellent post.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,602 posts, read 3,601,713 times
Reputation: 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
If you really want to go here we can include the studies showing the negative outcomes for adopted children. Would you like to see them? Because when you control for socioeconomic status, nontraditional but still biological families have better quantifiable outcomes for many measures than adoption.
Yes please. As an adoptive parent, I am aware that there are issues that my kids may face as a result of their being adopted; and I would welcome anything that would help me be better prepared to deal with those issues.
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:19 AM
 
16,565 posts, read 14,001,677 times
Reputation: 20517
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Yes please. As an adoptive parent, I am aware that there are issues that my kids may face as a result of their being adopted; and I would welcome anything that would help me be better prepared to deal with those issues.
I appreciate your attitude and applaud all parents who want to help their kids but I have to caution you that applying statistics about groups to actions regarding individuals is a bad idea.

Here is a decent review paper on the topic:
Palacios, Jesús, and David Brodzinsky. "Review: Adoption research: Trends, topics, outcomes." International Journal of Behavioral Development 34.3 (2010): 270-284.
APA

Another by brodzinsky


Brodzinsky, David M. "Long-term outcomes in adoption." The future of children (1993): 153-166.
APA


https://www.researchgate.net/profile...98631af8ec.pdf
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:38 AM
 
16,565 posts, read 14,001,677 times
Reputation: 20517
Quote:
Originally Posted by xy340 View Post
I was trying to be polite. Your argument is a rant. I guess politeness is taken as a form on weakness. So if you have all the answers on child abuse and poverty why don't you implement them. That way you can show everyone what an idiot I am and how smart you are. I've read a great deal of these social work papers and most of them are junk. Bottom line is that while our community provides a huge amount of support to single parents, most of them just don't want the support or the responsibilities that come with having a child. Foster care is a poor vehicle to raise children in. Why don't you post articles disproving that. Group home suck at raising children. Again, why don't you post articles disproving that. Foster homes don't provide permanency. Any articles disproving that? A large number of people volunteer a great deal of time and attend a great deal of fundraisers to help our community deal with these problems. At some point, it is obvious as to what works and what does not.
Well from logical fallacy to another. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Now you have completely misrepresented what I posted in an attempt to ignore basic fact.

And for the record who cares how many fundraisers people attend? Fundraisers are large part social events. Many, many people contribute in many, many ways (including contributing large amounts of money) without expecting a fundraising event.
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Old 12-15-2015, 01:42 PM
 
258 posts, read 157,876 times
Reputation: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Well from logical fallacy to another. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Now you have completely misrepresented what I posted in an attempt to ignore basic fact.

And for the record who cares how many fundraisers people attend? Fundraisers are large part social events. Many, many people contribute in many, many ways (including contributing large amounts of money) without expecting a fundraising event.
What a surprise! Not a single solution offered. Yes, according to you fundraisers are bad. So exactly how are Christmas presents for foster children to be purchased?
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Old 12-15-2015, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
912 posts, read 641,985 times
Reputation: 1078
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Well from logical fallacy to another. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Now you have completely misrepresented what I posted in an attempt to ignore basic fact.

And for the record who cares how many fundraisers people attend? Fundraisers are large part social events. Many, many people contribute in many, many ways (including contributing large amounts of money) without expecting a fundraising event.
Yup! It's like a magical carousel ride that keeps going around and around and around. If you stay on long enough you get dizzy and aren't any the wiser because there's nothing of substance to a wooden carousel mule. lol
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