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Old 02-18-2016, 05:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I'd say that my experience AS an adopted kid absolutely makes me more aware of what it's like than someone who has never gone through it.
Absolutely. I apologize, if in anyway I diminished your experience that was not intent. You definitely have more insight than someone is not an adoptee, but that still doesn't mean you speak for all adoptees or have had the same experiences and feelings they have all had.
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:37 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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My wish is that children who are in abusive families were removed swiftly, using common sense. And, giving birth to a child does not connote a lifetime of honor.
If you abuse or neglect that child, you should have no rights. No honor and no privileges. .

Some people who are adopted have interest in the people who gave birth to them, others have none. Ditto her ethnic origin.

Maybe what is good for you, is not good for us.
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,554 posts, read 16,704,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Absolutely. I apologize, if in anyway I diminished your experience that was not intent. You definitely have more insight than someone is not an adoptee, but that still doesn't mean you speak for all adoptees or have had the same experiences and feelings they have all had.
The only point that I was trying to make is that it is completely unfair to attack someone who chose not to talk about the adoption or the birth parents to their kid all the time. There are good reasons for that. IF the child chooses to talk about it, I'm sure that Sheena, or any other sane adoptive parent, would not deny the child to speak about it, but for the adopted parent to bring it up, constantly, as a way to "include" the birth parent throughout that child's life is not necessary.

We know we were adopted. Some of us know WHY we were adopted. As I said, regardless if it was due to a mistake or because of something worse, bringing it up all the time sends this message to the child:

"You're different, and we're going to keep talking about how different you are."

It's totally confusing for a kid, they don't understand in the adult understanding, why. They may know the reason was "because they were too young" or "because they were abusive" or "because they didn't think they could care for you", they may know that as in hear it, but it does not mean that they fully understand it. What they need, what any kid wants is a normal, loving, stable home. That's what kids want whether they are birth children or adopted children.

Let me try to illustrate this another way: My parents were doing the best they could to help me feel part of the family, but they were also told by a psychiatrist when I was younger to let me know that being adopted was "ok". (Again, there was an even bigger stigma back then than now, and the stigma now is still too much.) So, what they did, not being spiteful or mean, but what they thought was right, was they bought me a book/record combo. It was "Pet's Dragon". Their intention was to let me know that it was ok to be adopted, but the message that I received was: You're adopted, you're adopted, you're adopted, you're adopted.

We already feel weird. We already do the blame game on ourselves. We already think there's something wrong with us. That's a natural thought that adopted kids go through. "Why did they give me up?" We may know what we are told, "They were too young" "They didn't feel they could properly care for you so they were kind enough to...." "They were abusive", we know that, but we still don't understand it. So to sit there and talk about the birth parents or the adoption all the time never allows us to stop questioning OURSELVES. Obviously Sheena's daughter knew that she was adopted. I knew that I was adopted. A LOT of kids know that they are adopted. That doesn't stop the thoughts of, 'Why? I don't understand.' It is not in our capacity at those ages to understand. To keep bringing it up is actually harmful, not helpful.

As I said, IF the child wants to talk about it, then sure, by all means. I don't believe for a second that Sheena would have said, "No! We don't talk about her! You stop talking about your birth parents!" C'mon. We were kids that didn't understand, and we try to find some kind of normalcy in our lives. We NEED that. We do NOT need the birth parents being put in our face all the time. We need normalcy. We need stability. We need to focus on our life now, and the life ahead, not the life in the past. LORD knows people love to tell us that ALL the time! "Stop focusing on the past, it's over, move on", well LET US! The only way to do that is to just move on as a family - that family is the adopted mother, the adopted father, the kid and any siblings that may be birth children of the adopted mother and father or other adopted kids in the family. THAT is the family unit. That is what the kid learns and knows to be the family unit. Every kid needs a family, and every kid needs to feel secure. How you do that is just act like a dang family like any other family.

I mean, it's already been pointed out on here and in that article that not everyone views these kids as "normal" or the adopted parents as "normal". They want to scrutinize everything that the family does. They want to ask ridiculous questions. They are curious, they want to "see", they want to "know"...GOD, how do you think that would make a kid feel? Like they are some exhibit? How do you think that makes the adopted parents feel? Here they are, opening their home to a child who needs one, to be a member of their family, to love them, guide them, support them, turn them in to wonderful adults, and you've got other adults who want to be all up in that business. I pointed out that other kids are cruel - they don't get it either. So if the other kids don't get it, other adults don't get it, you think an adopted kid is going to get it?

Frankly, it's not the adopted parents' duty or obligation to bring up the birth parents or the adoption. How I feel is that while they did adopt, it's not their place to bring up the birth parents. It's the child's place, if they want. If the adopted parents don't talk about it, that doesn't make them unaccepting. That doesn't mean that the kid thinks they can't talk about it. That doesn't mean that the kid stuffs their feelings down and hides them. What it actually does is allow the kid to become a member of their adopted family, live a normal life, and thrive. In some cases, it allows them to heal. No, we don't need the biological parents being brought up all the time.

In my case, I didn't want to talk about it very much at all. It wasn't because I ever felt that I wasn't allowed to, it was because I didn't want to. Forcing me to talk about it would have caused a huge rift and never allowed for any kind of attachment to my parents (my adopted parents just to make things clear here). I was curious. I wondered about them. I wondered if I would ever see them again...but I didn't want it to be everything about me. I just wanted to be normal. By not being forced to talk about it, it allowed me to feel normal, and it was healthier. I get the idea that in Sheena's case with her daughter, it was the same thing. It's the same for a lot of us.

All I ask is that those who adopt, don't force things on the kids. Let them come to you, not you always talking about it.
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Illinois
4,754 posts, read 4,304,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I didn't say I wasn't curious about my birth parents. If you read, it was pretty obvious that I was. But at no time did we have a ridiculous "triad", nor was there any necessity to "celebrate" birth mother day. At no time are the majority of us told not to even "think" about our birth parents, nor was it what Sheena was doing, that is an absurd claim.

I lived it. I know EXACTLY what it feels like to be that adopted kid, and when you are an adopted kid, you have a tendency to meet a lot of other adopted kids. I'm not speaking just for myself.

The implication that if we don't constantly talk about the birth parents, don't celebrate some day for them, don't "invite them in" to be part of "our family" means that the adoptive parents are not accepting the kid is the most ridiculous and asinine thing that I've ever heard. Unless you have been on this side of it, you have NO idea what feelings adopted kids go through. I may be "one" person, but I sure as hell know more than those who were never adopted what it feels like. My point was, telling Sheena that she was doing this for selfish reasons is baloney. She did exactly what her kid needed her to do. You don't need to complicate adoption with adding in the very people who signed them over ... it's already confusing enough for the kid. Let them have their stable homelife, when they are 18, you give them the info you have, you support them if they want to look, and you let them decide at that point, when they are now a legal adult, if they want to create any relationship with a birth parent. You DON'T do that crap when they are still kids. Kids don't understand this stuff, and sitting down and talking to them may make YOU feel better, but it still doesn't help them truly understand, especially if you start bringing people in who signed them away. To this day, adopted kids face a stigma. To. This. Day. Stop making it worse, let them have a sense of normalcy.
You seem to have missed the part where I was an adopted kid too.

I know people who are adopted, have adopted, and have given up for adoption. I can see the triad from all sides. And I never said anything about celebrating birth parents day or anything like that. I am talking about parents who send the message - implicitly or explicitly - that "WE ARE YOUR PARENTS" and any consideration of anything else is considered disloyal or hurtful.

I grew up in that household, where my curiosity was squashed and I was made to feel bad for even thinking about my birth family. I was lied to, and information was kept from me. And when I found my birth family at 21, I was treated by my adopted mom as though I had stabbed her through the heart, even though I always said I would find them when I was an adult. Consequently, my a-mom will have absolutely nothing to do with my birth family, will not even acknowledge their presence in my life (and they have a big presence) and I have been forced to continue to quash that side of me when I am with her for the last 20 years. Our already distant relationship has become even more so.

Those are my mom's consequences for not treating MY adoption as though it was something I had the right to have feelings, thoughts, or curiosity about. Adoptive parents need to learn that the adoption isn't all about them.
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Old 02-18-2016, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
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The Adoption Triad is a term coined by Adoption professionals and psychologists. It has been picked up by the adoption community but I've never heard anybody refer to it as far as their individual family is concerned. I guess there are some who actually have a Triad if the adoption is open. I would have a difficult time if that openness meant the bio Mom doing anything more than an occasional vist or wanting updates. No baby sitting (like I've heard) or things like that.
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Old 02-18-2016, 11:51 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
You seem to have missed the part where I was an adopted kid too.

I know people who are adopted, have adopted, and have given up for adoption. I can see the triad from all sides. And I never said anything about celebrating birth parents day or anything like that. I am talking about parents who send the message - implicitly or explicitly - that "WE ARE YOUR PARENTS" and any consideration of anything else is considered disloyal or hurtful.

I grew up in that household, where my curiosity was squashed and I was made to feel bad for even thinking about my birth family. I was lied to, and information was kept from me. And when I found my birth family at 21, I was treated by my adopted mom as though I had stabbed her through the heart, even though I always said I would find them when I was an adult. Consequently, my a-mom will have absolutely nothing to do with my birth family, will not even acknowledge their presence in my life (and they have a big presence) and I have been forced to continue to quash that side of me when I am with her for the last 20 years. Our already distant relationship has become even more so.

Those are my mom's consequences for not treating MY adoption as though it was something I had the right to have feelings, thoughts, or curiosity about. Adoptive parents need to learn that the adoption isn't all about them.

We at first listened to the professionals - Korean classes, a closet full of Korean clothes (hambuks), seeking out Korean foods and restaurants. We offered her a special Summer camp in Colorado. She wanted no part of it. NONE.

Our daughter has her own personality, and little curiosity and interest in the woman who gave birth to her. Unlike Three Wolves in The Snow, she was not removed from an abusive situation. She was relinquished by teenaged people, who had no interest in having a baby. The night she was conceived, staring a family was the last thing on their minds.

She lived in a Foster Home for four months. Korean foster homes have more babies than the agency tells you that they do. Yet, it seems that she was adequately cared for while living with Mrs. Woo.

The only time our very outgoing and self confident daughter EVER asked anything about the people who conceived her, was when she was a young teenager and she wanted to know their heights and weights. She wanted to know how tall she would be, and find out if either of them were overweight.

International adoptions that occur very early, are quite different.

I would never tell any of my children that any subject was "off limits". I think that is cruel.

At the same time, the insertion of an almost mythical birth mother as a member of the family, to the mind's of many people, undermine the family that was formed via adoption.

We liked termination of parental rights to a divorce. When a divorce occurs, there is no more marriage. When a person remarries, they do not continue to celebrate the anniversary of their first marriage. It is null and void.

That is how we feel about "bio moms" and "first families". If that worked out.. and was worthy of acknowledgement or recognition - the child would still be living there.

Parents by adoption deserve respect and admiration - not everyone can raise and love a child who is not their flesh and blood.

Teenagers who conceive out of wedlock do not deserve a medal.

Parents who beat their children deserve jail, removal of their children and the scorn of society.

Children deserve good, secure loving homes with people who are in a position to help them grow and thrive. Usually there is a biological connection. Sometimes there is not.

Biology is not what is important. Love, maturity on the part of the parents, wisdom, and freedom from violence are what is important. Not "flesh and blood.
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Old 02-19-2016, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,472 posts, read 43,550,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
We at first listened to the professionals - Korean classes, a closet full of Korean clothes (hambuks), seeking out Korean foods and restaurants. We offered her a special Summer camp in Colorado. She wanted no part of it. NONE.

Our daughter has her own personality, and little curiosity and interest in the woman who gave birth to her. Unlike Three Wolves in The Snow, she was not removed from an abusive situation. She was relinquished by teenaged people, who had no interest in having a baby. The night she was conceived, staring a family was the last thing on their minds.

She lived in a Foster Home for four months. Korean foster homes have more babies than the agency tells you that they do. Yet, it seems that she was adequately cared for while living with Mrs. Woo.

The only time our very outgoing and self confident daughter EVER asked anything about the people who conceived her, was when she was a young teenager and she wanted to know their heights and weights. She wanted to know how tall she would be, and find out if either of them were overweight.

International adoptions that occur very early, are quite different.

I would never tell any of my children that any subject was "off limits". I think that is cruel.

At the same time, the insertion of an almost mythical birth mother as a member of the family, to the mind's of many people, undermine the family that was formed via adoption.

We liked termination of parental rights to a divorce. When a divorce occurs, there is no more marriage. When a person remarries, they do not continue to celebrate the anniversary of their first marriage. It is null and void.

That is how we feel about "bio moms" and "first families". If that worked out.. and was worthy of acknowledgement or recognition - the child would still be living there.

Parents by adoption deserve respect and admiration - not everyone can raise and love a child who is not their flesh and blood.

Teenagers who conceive out of wedlock do not deserve a medal.

Parents who beat their children deserve jail, removal of their children and the scorn of society.

Children deserve good, secure loving homes with people who are in a position to help them grow and thrive. Usually there is a biological connection. Sometimes there is not.

Biology is not what is important. Love, maturity on the part of the parents, wisdom, and freedom from violence are what is important. Not "flesh and blood.
Except for the bold section I could have (and often have) said the same thing.

Acknowledging the existence of a bio mother is acknowledging a fact which cannot be denied.

Very little has been said about this unknown woman over the years. I think our Korean daughter has a very healthy attitude about it. She realizes her life could have been very different and she is very happy with her life as it has given her opportunities she never would have had otherwise. She is a talented musician and she wonders if this ever would have been actualized under different circumstances.

I don't think curiosity should be deemed as unhappiness with present life or even desire to connect with bio relatives.
For many it is just that---curiosity. I'm curious about the relatives and ancestors I never knew too.

Now my other adopted children have absolutely NO curiosity. At least they have not expressed any to date. They have been given opportunities to ask questions but don't. That's fine. They know where to come if that time comes and if it doesn't --then that's fine too.

It's such an individual and personal issue.

Last edited by no kudzu; 02-19-2016 at 07:18 AM..
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:44 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
Except for the bold section I could have (and often have) said the same thing.

Acknowledging the existence of a bio mother is acknowledging a fact which cannot be denied.

Very little has been said about this unknown woman over the years. I think our Korean daughter has a very healthy attitude about it. She realizes her life could have been very different and she is very happy with her life as it has given her opportunities she never would have had otherwise. She is a talented musician and she wonders if this ever would have been actualized under different circumstances.

I don't think curiosity should be deemed as unhappiness with present life or even desire to connect with bio relatives.
For many it is just that---curiosity. I'm curious about the relatives and ancestors I never knew too.

Now my other adopted children have absolutely NO curiosity. At least they have not expressed any to date. They have been given opportunities to ask questions but don't. That's fine. They know where to come if that time comes and if it doesn't --then that's fine too.

It's such an individual and personal issue.

I don't think curiosity and diolog should ever be squelched. However, so much of this "birth parent interest", as Three Wolves said, is NOT from the parents. It comes from the brth parents who read literature generated by the Anti-Adoption Movement.

I also think that too much drama inserted into the life of a child, too much sentiment, can raise confusion and feelings of guilt.
We have taken a "matter of fact" approach. Our daughter spends no time worrying about a woman she has never met.

And we think that is a good thing.

(I will add that not all adopted people have the same level of curiosity. Our daughter falls on the "low curiosity level" I have seen and known children with even less. And some with more. When children become obsessed with their "birth mothers", it frequently comes from misplaced sentiment imposed by the adoptive family, directed towards the "birth mother". When curiosity turns into obsession, something has gone awry.) .
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Old 02-19-2016, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,472 posts, read 43,550,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I don't think curiosity and diolog should ever be squelched. However, so much of this "birth parent interest", as Three Wolves said, is NOT from the parents. It comes from the brth parents who read literature generated by the Anti-Adoption Movement.

.
I must have missed that. Was the anti -adoption movement issues raised in this thread? I'm very much aware of it but didn't see that subject brought up here.
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Old 02-19-2016, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Out West
22,554 posts, read 16,704,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
You seem to have missed the part where I was an adopted kid too.

I know people who are adopted, have adopted, and have given up for adoption. I can see the triad from all sides. And I never said anything about celebrating birth parents day or anything like that. I am talking about parents who send the message - implicitly or explicitly - that "WE ARE YOUR PARENTS" and any consideration of anything else is considered disloyal or hurtful.

I grew up in that household, where my curiosity was squashed and I was made to feel bad for even thinking about my birth family. I was lied to, and information was kept from me. And when I found my birth family at 21, I was treated by my adopted mom as though I had stabbed her through the heart, even though I always said I would find them when I was an adult. Consequently, my a-mom will have absolutely nothing to do with my birth family, will not even acknowledge their presence in my life (and they have a big presence) and I have been forced to continue to quash that side of me when I am with her for the last 20 years. Our already distant relationship has become even more so.

Those are my mom's consequences for not treating MY adoption as though it was something I had the right to have feelings, thoughts, or curiosity about. Adoptive parents need to learn that the adoption isn't all about them.
And birth parents who come back in to the picture and write nasty comments to adoptive parents need to realize that it's not all about them, either.

I don't agree with what happened in your situation, and apparently continues to happen. If you had curiosity and questions, they should have been answered. That's not fair to you.

My biggest issue came around because a birth parent slammed adoptive parents on here, he/she assumed that he/she had a single clue what he/she was talking about, and was basically extremely nasty making a flippant comment about how adoptive parents got "some other mother's baby"...no. It's not "some other mother's baby" because that person is NOT THEIR MOTHER. (The difference between a death of a parent who was never known and a birth parent who gave up their child is just that - the birth parent, whether by choice or force, relinquished their rights to that child. The deceased parent never did. THAT is the difference.)

I also do not agree that all birth parents deserve one second of empathy or acknowledgement further than whatever information the child might want to know. Some birth parents do not deserve any "honor" whatsoever. The fact that some birth parents think that they do is the height of arrogance.

My point is, and has been, WE the kids do not NEED it, meaning, we don't NEED the adopted parents to be talking about it. If WE want to talk about it, then it can be talked about, but we don't need someone telling us how "honorable" our birth parents were for having us. Millions have had kids for thousands of years, millions more will have them for thousands more years...they aren't special just because they birthed a child. Somehow an adoptive parent stating that they don't bring it up to their child got turned in to, "You shut out your child from ever talking about it." That was never said, that was never the case. I happen to know the person who got slammed, and the people who said that about her were 100% completely WRONG. That person is NOT like your adopted mother.

My point is, and has been, the one who gets to decide who gets "honored" and talked about is the child. Not the adopted parents, and certainly not the birth parents. It's not about them at all.

Last edited by Three Wolves In Snow; 02-19-2016 at 11:03 AM..
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