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Old 09-22-2017, 10:55 PM
 
1,409 posts, read 808,105 times
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For me personally I believe there is more inherently of value and importance not having to do with degrees- I understand what your saying that your second parents were highly educated and had a lot of money- and your question on how your first parents might have been able to provide care- well that will forever be unanswered since they didn't raise you. There are many ways and means for parents who are not wealthy or who happen to be young to still be good or even excellent parents.

I saw a documentary on a teen couple who gave their child for adoption because of the sole reason that they were told since they were young they wouldn't make good parents. They placed her under the condition it was to be an open adoption with certain laid out understood terms such as letters and photo updates every few months, phone calls to inquire how she was, and occasional visits. The adoptive parents were twice the age of the first parents and so of course had more money and they had decent careers - not doctors or lawyers but hey did okay.
It showed a visit when their baby turned one, it was so evident the baby sensed and felt a bond to both her natural mom and dad. She appeared to be mesmerized staring at her teen parents, at one point she tenderly reached out and touched the cheek of her teen dad, holding her hand on his face staring at him. There was something there that a degree can't take the place of. It was so sad that not long after the adoptive parents apparently felt insecure about how their baby seemed to take so instantly to her birth parents and they quickly reduced contact and actually ended up totally going back on their word, blocking all attempts by the birth parents to even receive updates or occasionally say hi to her on the phone.

The mom went on to earn a degree in social work, can't recall what the dad went on to do but they stayed together and to me it was just so sad- they clearly would've made excellent parents and deeply loved and cared for her and instinctively seemed to know how to interact with her, she genuinely showed a bond she had with them.
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Old 09-23-2017, 05:55 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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You just described Tyler and Cate on Teen Mom.....

and my parents were my parents... not second parents or anything like that...
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:33 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,700 posts, read 21,360,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondayafternoons View Post
For me personally I believe there is more inherently of value and importance not having to do with degrees- I understand what your saying that your second parents were highly educated and had a lot of money- and your question on how your first parents might have been able to provide care- well that will forever be unanswered since they didn't raise you. There are many ways and means for parents who are not wealthy or who happen to be young to still be good or even excellent parents.

I saw a documentary on a teen couple who gave their child for adoption because of the sole reason that they were told since they were young they wouldn't make good parents. They placed her under the condition it was to be an open adoption with certain laid out understood terms such as letters and photo updates every few months, phone calls to inquire how she was, and occasional visits. The adoptive parents were twice the age of the first parents and so of course had more money and they had decent careers - not doctors or lawyers but hey did okay.
It showed a visit when their baby turned one, it was so evident the baby sensed and felt a bond to both her natural mom and dad. She appeared to be mesmerized staring at her teen parents, at one point she tenderly reached out and touched the cheek of her teen dad, holding her hand on his face staring at him. There was something there that a degree can't take the place of. It was so sad that not long after the adoptive parents apparently felt insecure about how their baby seemed to take so instantly to her birth parents and they quickly reduced contact and actually ended up totally going back on their word, blocking all attempts by the birth parents to even receive updates or occasionally say hi to her on the phone.

The mom went on to earn a degree in social work, can't recall what the dad went on to do but they stayed together and to me it was just so sad- they clearly would've made excellent parents and deeply loved and cared for her and instinctively seemed to know how to interact with her, she genuinely showed a bond she had with them.
If you're talking about Tyler and Catelynn from teen mom, I do wonder if they would change their decision if they had to do it again.

There was a connection when they brought their 2nd daughter to meet the daughter Carly (8) that they placed for adoption. The adoptive parents cut off contact about 2 years ago. I just googled, they were finally allowed to see Carly in August.

Teen Mom's Catelynn Lowell and Tyler Baltierra Reunite with the Daughter They Placed for Adoption By Stephanie Petit - Posted on August 20, 2017 at 2:12pm EDT

Quote:
The reality star told PEOPLE that Carly “kept showing Nova to everybody and saying, ‘This is my birth sister.’ It was so cute!”

Last edited by Roselvr; 09-23-2017 at 07:46 AM..
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:50 AM
 
1,409 posts, read 808,105 times
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I think they probably would, knowing now what they know. At the time they were young and vulnerable and went along to the idea they should give her up bc they were young. It was a scumbag move on adoptive parents to renig on their agreement- probably the only condition that made adoption something they would do- if the adoptive parents had let them know we won't let you see or have contact they very well might've not done it. I wish the best for all of them, Tyler and Caitlyn and their daughter they lost to adoption
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Old 09-30-2017, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,256 posts, read 542,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
BTW my mother wasn't all warm and fuzzy either. And she frequently told us kids that she wasn't our friend, but our parent. And she took her parenting very seriously. But that is the nature of a tiger mom.

I'm sure that your birth mother would have kept you if she could. However, she wasn't able to. And probably had she kept you, you'd now have harsh memories of a lack of food on the table and other issues dealing with low finances and being a latch key kid due to her having to work long hours to support you. And her attitude at home would be less of joy and happiness because she'd have been tired and stressed out all of the time. And then she'd be resentful too, because single mothers have a very difficult time in finding a decent man to date and marry.

So stop laying all the blame for your imperfect life on your poor adoptive mother.
Immensely enjoying this discussion ... we had an experience with a RAD child in our home.

Anyway, this post is excellent and so very true.
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Old 09-30-2017, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,256 posts, read 542,087 times
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
This thread is both puzzling and distressing. So much so that I may have skipped a few (several) posts. I am not adopted. I did NOT have a happy or ideal childhood. There is that. But... ... how does someone even formulate a coherent argument that adoption should not exist? Right now in Current Events (I didn't read it) is a story about a new mother killed in the hospital elevator after giving birth. I don't imagine her infant child is up to seeing to its own rearing. Not for a few years yet. How can this be a matter for 4 pages of argument? I gather someone that is adopted who knows that their birth mother is not dead can feel deprived. I gather also that some of these people have moved heaven and earth and broken laws getting sealed documents unsealed and tracked down their birth mothers and... ... regretted it. Be careful what you wish for seems a highly apropos phrase in this context. Natural mothers can be horrible, adoptive mothers can be horrible. Natural mothers can be amazing, adoptive mothers can be amazing. Most have mothers whether natural or adoptive that fall somewhere on the spectrum. The one thing none of us can do is choose exactly who and what we are going to get for a mother (or father) at birth.
Exactly. I was "adopted" at birth, meaning, the man who was put on the birth certificate as my father, was not my father. He raised me and I never knew he wasn't my real father until I was told by accident at age 22. All of a sudden I felt lied to, betrayed, like my whole life was a lie. I was very (understandably) angry with my mother and went through a mini identity crisis. I found and met my real father a few years later (he never knew about me, it was concealed from him and he lived far away) and he was (is) such a wonderful man ... so I was extra angry that I had been deprived of a life with him.

Bitterness will eat you alive. You can't change a thing except your attitude. Forgiveness and love are a choice. I love my mom, I love my dad, and I love the dad who raised me. I've been blessed. Nothing in my life has been perfect, my childhood was very, very hard ... but I don't dwell on it. Life is too short. I choose joy.

Last edited by SouthernProper; 09-30-2017 at 12:06 PM..
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Old 09-30-2017, 02:29 PM
 
1,409 posts, read 808,105 times
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Miu,

You aren't able to glean my point. I'm tired and also see it's kind of pointless to explain to you because I believe I did earlier and you just don't seem to get it. So I'm not going to spend much time or energy bothering-- couple things real quick--1) this isn't as another poster Middletwin wrote earlier on, a contest between birth and adoptive parents. Your assertion that I should "stop laying the blame" on my adoptive mother demonstrates that exactly. Also, how did you come to know my birth mother would have worked long hours , been poor, single, had trouble "finding a man to marry her" etc? Have you met her? And even if she had to work long hours or we were poor- what about it? There's a lot of families that struggle to get by. Not sure about your theory on single moms "having trouble finding men to marry them"--I've known a couple women who didn't have kids (one had a dog does that count?) and were really decent people and attractive who for whatever reason seemed to have difficulty "getting a man to marry them".



I've clarified this earlier, since some don't get it or ignore it, let me point out once more the title of my thread is not "adoption should be banned"--- it is "generally speaking against majority of adoptions"--as said it's my belief the bulk of time energy resources etc should be utilized to make every effort to keep children with their birth parents rather than the other way around.
So to recap-- it's not a competition, it's not about blaming adoptive parents, nor is it anything to do with "being unthankful" , or not being grateful one didn't end up in an orphanage. It's not about degrees, its not about age alone. It's not about comparing salaries between birth and adoptive parents. It's about something really simple-- that adoption should be a last resort for children whose first parents are truly in abusive/ neglectful. For first parents who are not abusive but for example, young, and poor- there should be an emphasis on assistance and resources to enable those parents to stay intact with their child.

Last edited by mondayafternoons; 09-30-2017 at 02:42 PM..
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:41 AM
 
838 posts, read 301,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernProper View Post
Exactly. I was "adopted" at birth, meaning, the man who was put on the birth certificate as my father, was not my father. He raised me and I never knew he wasn't my real father until I was told by accident at age 22. All of a sudden I felt lied to, betrayed, like my whole life was a lie. I was very (understandably) angry with my mother and went through a mini identity crisis. I found and met my real father a few years later (he never knew about me, it was concealed from him and he lived far away) and he was (is) such a wonderful man ... so I was extra angry that I had been deprived of a life with him.

Bitterness will eat you alive. You can't change a thing except your attitude. Forgiveness and love are a choice. I love my mom, I love my dad, and I love the dad who raised me. I've been blessed. Nothing in my life has been perfect, my childhood was very, very hard ... but I don't dwell on it. Life is too short. I choose joy.
You could advocate for fathers' rights because of the injustice your first Dad experienced. Your story is helpful in understanding why the majority of adoptions in the USA, are unnecessary, just as OP recognizes, through their experience.
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Old 10-02-2017, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,256 posts, read 542,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Middletwin View Post
You could advocate for fathers' rights because of the injustice your first Dad experienced. Your story is helpful in understanding why the majority of adoptions in the USA, are unnecessary, just as OP recognizes, through their experience.
If I were going to advocate for anything it would be FORGIVENESS and THANKFULNESS. I have far more than I deserve, my childhood experiences shaped me into the person I am today. I recognize that the world is full of bitter and hateful people, life isn't perfect, but we all have a choice to know better, do better and be better than our circumstances. I am not a victim.
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:06 PM
 
838 posts, read 301,745 times
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Forgiveness, thankfulness and not feeling like a victim seem futile for preventing unnecessary adoptions. (This of course is in the child's best interest.) It actually might make a few people mad, too, to be told, they're supposed to feel that way.
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