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Old 08-26-2017, 07:30 PM
 
1,409 posts, read 802,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
There is overwhelming evidence that infants suffer later on, when taken from their birth mothers. Whether you call that memory or not, an infant knows it's birth mother from anyone else. I firmly believe that. Proponents of adoption want to believe that infants are just blank slates and can be made into whatever they want them to be. They want to believe the child suffers no form of loss from being taken away from his/her birth mother.


Also, read up on Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) in adopted children.
Yes your right about adoption proponents both the industry, but also prospective adoptive parents and even some adoptees try to promote this nonsense that babies don't know s*** and that a baby being torn away from his mother has no effect.
also the bio mom knows her infant apart from others in a nursery. After my baby was born, only a few hours old, she was down the hall in nursery. Many babies crying. At one point my whole body reacted to one babies cry and sure enough seconds later the nurse wheeled her into my room. I had differentiated her cry apart and being distinct to my ears from the other babies crying.

Last edited by mondayafternoons; 08-26-2017 at 08:13 PM..
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Old 08-26-2017, 07:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondayafternoons View Post
Yes and also the bio mom knows her infant apart from others in a nursery. After my baby was born, only a few hours old, she was down the hall in nursery. Many babies crying. At one point my whole body reacted to one babies cry and sure enough seconds later the nurse wheeled her into my room. I had differentiated her cry apart and being distinct to my ears from the other babies crying.
Actually, studies show that mothers can't pick their own child out in the hospital nursery, incredibly. I really struggle with that, because I thought I could surely do that although never had the chance to be tested.

In studies where mothers interacted with their newborns after birth, and the babies were taken away to the nursery after an hour or so of bonding, the mother was unable to pick her child out of other similar appearing babies. I wish I had the chance to participate in that - I feel certain I could have picked mine out, but since others clearly can't, well . .

But back to the initial topic. I'm really curious about your experience. I agree with your basic premise that kids do better with bio parents when that's possible.

Do you know your bio parents? Earlier in this thread you said absolutely you would have done better raised by them - but do you know them? Can you explain why they relinquished you - was it a court order against the wishes of your bioparents? Do you remember them - I'm not talking about as a newborn, did you actually know them as a child?
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Kalamalka Lake, B.C.
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Back in the early nineties I was watching a Chinese orphan factory on TV with a crowd of pretty hard core guys. There wasn't a dry eye in the place. Kids need a place to go. And their are millions of them.
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Left coast
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OP
its normal to feel a loss for your bio family and mom.

One of many traumas an adopted child goes through (I have an adopted sibling and a partner that was torn away from bio mom as an infant, ended up in an orphanage anyway a few years later, and then reunited with bio mom- she beat and starved him unmercilessly. His step dad ended up adopting him after their divorce to get him away from her, to which he is endlessly grateful for - his adopted parent...)

- You never will know "what could have been" it may have been better, or much much worse- you just will never really know.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:46 PM
 
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Both me and my sister were adopted, our adoptive mother later in menopause. (!) got pregnant with our youngest sib. Is it a coincidence that both me and my sister were never interested in adopting children while our sibling who was not adopted felt it would be an act of humanity to adopt his kids. Just interesting to note the two of us who were adopted didn't like nor ever considered adopting ourselves, we wanted to have our own children but the sibling who wasn't adopted did want to.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
This is not at all true. In the past, this was the understanding of the mental health community, which is what was then taught to adoptive parents. But things are very, very different now.

RAD happens when the child was not given a secure attachment in early infancy. From being abused, to drug dependent, to very ill, to having a parent who cant tend to them. It is not caused by adoption. That is absurd to suggest that. That is a disservice to all adopted people to suggest that.
A child can lose secure attachment in early infancy if he/she is ripped away from his birth mother. And no, not all adopted children have RAD and I never stated that.


Our society wants to keep believing that all children who are adopted came from bad situations. It's not always true. And no, a child simply being born in a third world country is not bad enough to justify taking him from his parents and placing him with a family in Europe or America. And no, a child being born to a poor, single mother doesn't justify taking him from his mom. Many adoptions are unnecessary. Many babies are trafficked and stolen using the justification of "he'll get a better life with a richer family in America". Our society wants to keep believing adoption is always a fairy tale with a happy ending. But many adoptees are bitter and feel a sense of loss, cut off from their origins, birth family, native culture and heritage. I know one adoptive mom who talked to me about her child's emotional problems which sound clearly like symptoms of RAD; she adopted the child from an African country. She says "but I don't know why she's so unhappy, we give her everything, she has a beautiful home, nice clothes, toys, vacations, the life of a princess". This adoptive mom seems to believe, as is typical of many Americans, that material things are all that is important. She doesn't understand why a child taken from her birth mother and placed in an orphanage might have emotional difficulties. She just doesn't get this. She also seems to view her adopted child as a "charity case" which is sad in itself. This mom has bio children already and it almost seems like she adopted for the so-called trendy reasons. Some people think it's trendy (think Madonna, Angelina Jolie, etc) to adopt from other countries. They shouldn't be adopting if that is the case. They should only adopt if they really want a child and a family. Our society keeps pushing adoption; people who can't have children are urged to pursue adoption, even if they don't feel it's right for them or can't afford it and are called "selfish" for not adopting. Birth mothers are called "selfish" if they want to try and raise their child even though society has deemed them to be too poor or young to be mothers.


We need to start looking at different viewpoints. This is not right for everyone and it does not work well for everyone, all of the time.

Last edited by PriscillaVanilla; 08-26-2017 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:54 PM
 
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Clara C,
In answer to some of your questions, yes I was adopted. My birth parents were in high school at the time of my birth. It was a closed adoption, complete with a fake (amended ) birth certificate. I have never met my birth parents but I know who they are. I now know why I am wired the way I am, which didn't mesh or fit in with my adoptive family (think sensitive intuitive artist type in family of colder, more aloof practical engineer types). My sisters birth mom was forced into a maternity home "for unwed mothers" at age 21, after she gave birth and gifted the agency with a healthy white newborn she was sent back home empty handed. The social
Workers who conducted the evaluation per my mother, pretty much focused not so much on personality traits, psychological makeup and parenting abilities as they did on home ownership, nice neighborhood and school district-- my adoptive mother told me how she was nervous about the house being spotless since the social
Workers were so concerned with all that.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:57 PM
 
1,409 posts, read 802,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
I'm sorry to hear you don't have a positive view of adoption. I don't think your personal opinion is shared by all...or even most.
So say you...
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
A child can lose secure attachment in early infancy if he/she is ripped away from his birth mother. And no, not all adopted children have RAD and I never stated that.
And not all children are "ripped away" from their birth mother in early infancy. The "torn" and "ripped" terminology being thrown around seems to assume quite a bit. Even when done so reluctantly, giving up a child for adoption (at least in the US) is consensual. I don't think it is fair to imply that some evil person with a hood is physically ripping a crying child from a hysterical mother.

A child can lose secure attachment in early infancy if they are separated from a primary caregiver. That caregiver does not need to have the same DNA. It seems you are overlooking that important point. There are many reasons a child might not have an appropriate caregiver. Adoption is actually a solution to that problem - not the cause.

Quote:
I know one adoptive mom who talked to me about her child's emotional problems which sound clearly like symptoms of RAD; she adopted the child from an African country. She says "but I don't know why she's so unhappy, we give her everything, she has a beautiful home, nice clothes, toys, vacations, the life of a princess". This adoptive mom seems to believe, as is typical of many Americans, that material things are all that is important.
I see two things in your example that make me look at the "problem" from a different angle.

1. The adopted child is from Africa. This does change things. Physical and possibly cultural differences (depending on the child's age) will certainly have an impact on a child's psyche. RAD may be an issue, but it would not be a function of adoption - unless the child was indeed kidnapped from her family and sold to an American couple.

2. If the adoptive family is all about material things... no wonder the kid has issues. This happens all the time in "bio" families. Sounds more like a parenting issue than an adoption issue.

Quote:
She doesn't understand why a child taken from her birth mother and placed in an orphanage might have emotional difficulties. She just doesn't get this. She also seems to view her adopted child as a "charity case" which is sad in itself. This mom has bio children already and it almost seems like she adopted for the so-called trendy reasons.
Again - It seems obvious any problems are a result of the parenting process and not a function of adoption. If the child was indeed bounced around for her first few years, I would agree that can cause issues. I also would think adoption (into a loving family as opposed to remaining in an orphanage) mitigated the problems rather than caused them.

Quote:
Some people think it's trendy (think Madonna, Angelina Jolie, etc) to adopt from other countries. They shouldn't be adopting if that is the case. They should only adopt if they really want a child and a family.
I couldn't agree more.

Quote:
Our society keeps pushing adoption; people who can't have children are urged to pursue adoption, even if they don't feel it's right for them or can't afford it and are called "selfish" for not adopting. Birth mothers are called "selfish" if they want to try and raise their child even though society has deemed them to be too poor or young to be mothers.
I respect your opinion, but my experience on these points has been quite the opposite. I have seen young people in no position (and with no desire) to raise a child being virtually "shamed" into keeping the child. I also know childless couples who have decided not to adopt and never felt any pressure to.

Quote:
We need to start looking at different viewpoints. This is not right for everyone and it does not work well for everyone, all of the time.
Again, I agree 100%. Everyone's situation is different. What is right for one person, couple or child may not be right for someone else.
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:47 AM
 
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Sometimes I want to come on to these threads and complain with igdonation about how I wasn't placed for adoption and/or how the powers that be didn't think I was important enough to be placed with a slightly sane parent
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