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Old 08-28-2017, 06:28 PM
 
1,409 posts, read 802,912 times
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Nov3,

Sorry...While I didn't grow up in foster care I was in foster care for a brief time before being adopted and had that knowledge. I'm sorry....
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondayafternoons View Post
Re open adoptions-- there are some adoptive parents like yourself who actually follow through however so many of them sign on to that in their fervor to obtain baby and after a time contact starts to close off to some degree or altogether.
While as I said some of this is based on me my siblings and friends adoptee experiences it is also based on known studies and research that backs up adoption as being a trauma. How anyone can't see this is beyond me. Mostly it is adoptive parents and definitely the industry that tries to call it hogwash.
I am finding that it is interesting that I am offering a lot of feedback and it is being ignored and only tiny portions are being picked up in order to bluster your hypnosis. That says a lot of your intentions.

The parents raising the children SHOULD be able to decide when and how often birth parent contact is made. Bio related or not. We live it. We are in the trenches. We are dealing with day to day struggles with the kids. We are dealing with what is happening at school. We are in the therapy appointment when our kid is struggling. The full time, adoptive parent is far more qualified to decide what and how much contact should be made.

While I am sure there is a small subset of people who are like "neener neener I got your baby and you cant have them back", most adoptive parents are like other parents...maybe even better educated. We want what is best for out kids. If contact with birth families isn't good for the child at the time, you have to just trust the parent is making their best decision...not trying to stick it to the birth parent.

I am sorry you cant see that. I am sorry you are jaded. I am sorry your mom wasn't good enough. But...you have an agenda and a chip on your shoulder that makes you less then a reliable source.

If you want to make an impact, do serious and in-depth psychotherapy until you can look at the situation as a survivor not a victim. Then write your story. It will help all parties understand how to change, what we can do better, etc. Otherwise...you will keep filling the roll of the bitter adoptee that no one listens to (that follows your narrative, so maybe you want to keep it?)
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:37 PM
 
1,409 posts, read 802,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
I am finding that it is interesting that I am offering a lot of feedback and it is being ignored and only tiny portions are being picked up in order to bluster your hypnosis. That says a lot of your intentions.

The parents raising the children SHOULD be able to decide when and how often birth parent contact is made. Bio related or not. We live it. We are in the trenches. We are dealing with day to day struggles with the kids. We are dealing with what is happening at school. We are in the therapy appointment when our kid is struggling. The full time, adoptive parent is far more qualified to decide what and how much contact should be made.

While I am sure there is a small subset of people who are like "neener neener I got your baby and you cant have them back", most adoptive parents are like other parents...maybe even better educated. We want what is best for out kids. If contact with birth families isn't good for the child at the time, you have to just trust the parent is making their best decision...not trying to stick it to the birth parent.

I am sorry you cant see that. I am sorry you are jaded. I am sorry your mom wasn't good enough. But...you have an agenda and a chip on your shoulder that makes you less then a reliable source.

If you want to make an impact, do serious and in-depth psychotherapy until you can look at the situation as a survivor not a victim. Then write your story. It will help all parties understand how to change, what we can do better, etc. Otherwise...you will keep filling the roll of the bitter adoptee that no one listens to (that follows your narrative, so maybe you want to keep it?)
No, not really... I'm simply stating adoption is a trauma. I am not the only one who believes this, and your presuming to speak for me when you claim that I am a victim. Or that I'm jaded.
It's noted that you claim adoptive parents are "more educated" than other parents. Do you have hard scientific data to back this up? Is that supposed to imply adoptive parents are superior?
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:25 PM
 
10,171 posts, read 7,041,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondayafternoons View Post
No, not really... I'm simply stating adoption is a trauma. I am not the only one who believes this, and your presuming to speak for me when you claim that I am a victim. Or that I'm jaded.
It's noted that you claim adoptive parents are "more educated" than other parents. Do you have hard scientific data to back this up? Is that supposed to imply adoptive parents are superior?




good lord

best of luck
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:45 PM
 
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Ok, I'll take that to mean you don't have a reply... in your post you said adoptive parents are like most parents but probably better educated
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Old 08-29-2017, 06:51 AM
 
1,409 posts, read 802,912 times
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Here is another excerpt from a piece on the psychology of the adopted child
authored by a physician

"Every adopted child at some point in his development has been deprived of this primitive relationship with his mother. This trauma and severing of the adopted individual from his biological antecedents lie at the core of what is particular to the psychology of the adopted child. The ego of the adopted child in addition to all the demands placed on it are called upon to compensate for the wound left by the loss of the biological mother.
"... the child who is placed for adoption at or soon after birth misses the mutual and satisfying mother child bond. The roots of which lay deep in the personality of where the psychological and physiological are merged. Both for the child and the natural mother that is part of the biological sequence and it is to be doubted whether the relationship of the child to its postpartum mother, in its subtler effects can be replaced by even the best of substitute mothers"
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:40 AM
 
1,409 posts, read 802,912 times
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The bottom line really is that yes it's a fact adoption will to some extent be necessary. It should be a last resort, not merely due to age for example, as the truth is there are mature parents who do not make good parents even with the financial means, and there are wonderful parents despite a young age and limited finances. Adoption should when it's necessary be undertaken with the essential acknowledgement the child has lost the natural bond with his first mother and from there should everything else flow. Adoptive parents if they can put heir own ego or insecurities aside, be intentional in expressing an attitude of deep respect and understanding empathy for the loss the child has suffered and also an acknowledgement of respect to the child's first or biological mother. If that is the foundational mindset and attitude of the adoptive parents towards the adoptee, it will lend itself to the adoptee himself being comfortable in any ways he needs or wants to explore his birth family and/ or contact. My brothers gf a few years ago told me she would consider adopting but that she would always make it a point to let her child know that before her, yes he had another mother first, and would come from that point of acknowledging the loss there that's inherent and to be encouraging rather than threatened by any curiosity he might express about her (birth mother). That was so refreshing to hear rather than the much more common mentality of adoptive parents. I'm sure if she went on to adopt she would do a phenomenal job of it. I wish this could be the case the majority of times rather than the exception. But basically what I am saying is that it goes without saying first that adoption will always exist but should be encouraged to see as a last resort. When it is necessary the acknowledgement needs to be there that the adoptee didn't come from a baby store- he suffered the loss of his birth mother in order to be adopted. Attempts to brush over this or cover it up are not helpful, nor is the insecurity or acting threatened at the mention of the child's birth family. The adoptive parent should go forward with the reality of his heritage of having come from another mother before, and instead of feeling threatened, envious, etc to instead realize the amazing place the adoptive parent can play in his life, and a very deep albeit somewhat different of a bond can form. But that can't happen with feelings of denial, being insecure/ threatened or competitive towards the birth parents. It's not a competition, the child had a first set of parents hat was lost or severed and now a second set of parents. Attempts by an adoptive parent to prove they are the one and only ( in any variety of ways- for example writing a falsified baby book that is filled in to say "Jenny was born in May 5 2005 to Bob and Lisa Brown at 5:49 am' (like in my case) the kid isn't stupid and so if he has been told that he was adopted as he's a little older he will know that he wasn't born to Bob and Lisa, (adoptive parents) he was born to his birth parents. This is one example, other comments or attitudes that the adoptive parents carry to try and prove they are the only parents are not helpful and can put distance between them. If the adoptive parents can simply apply acknowledgement and respect toward the reality the adoptee came from their first family and suffered that loss in order to end up with them then if that is solidly in place, a genuine and close bond will follow
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:14 AM
 
825 posts, read 296,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
I am finding that it is interesting that I am offering a lot of feedback and it is being ignored and only tiny portions are being picked up in order to bluster your hypnosis. That says a lot of your intentions.

The parents raising the children SHOULD be able to decide when and how often birth parent contact is made. Bio related or not. We live it. We are in the trenches. We are dealing with day to day struggles with the kids. We are dealing with what is happening at school. We are in the therapy appointment when our kid is struggling. The full time, adoptive parent is far more qualified to decide what and how much contact should be made.

While I am sure there is a small subset of people who are like "neener neener I got your baby and you cant have them back", most adoptive parents are like other parents...maybe even better educated. We want what is best for out kids. If contact with birth families isn't good for the child at the time, you have to just trust the parent is making their best decision...not trying to stick it to the birth parent.

I am sorry you cant see that. I am sorry you are jaded. I am sorry your mom wasn't good enough. But...you have an agenda and a chip on your shoulder that makes you less then a reliable source.

If you want to make an impact, do serious and in-depth psychotherapy until you can look at the situation as a survivor not a victim. Then write your story. It will help all parties understand how to change, what we can do better, etc. Otherwise...you will keep filling the roll of the bitter adoptee that no one listens to (that follows your narrative, so maybe you want to keep it?)
I'll just add this is why first parents need their own lawyer for visitation arrangements as other parents have to do when they divorce.

Until then the bullsh#t of influencing a mother to relinquish by telling her that they can have open-adoption needs to stop.

(Obviously, this is for situations that don't endanger the child.)
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:42 AM
 
10,171 posts, read 7,041,703 times
Reputation: 23932
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondayafternoons View Post
Ok, I'll take that to mean you don't have a reply... in your post you said adoptive parents are like most parents but probably better educated
No take it to mean I find no use in talking with anyone who cant seem to comprehend even the most basic post and/or refuses to in order to troll and push their own agenda.

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Old 08-29-2017, 08:47 AM
 
10,171 posts, read 7,041,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Middletwin View Post
I'll just add this is why first parents need their own lawyer for visitation arrangements as other parents have to do when they divorce.

Until then the bullsh#t of influencing a mother to relinquish by telling her that they can have open-adoption needs to stop.

(Obviously, this is for situations that don't endanger the child.)
The surely need to be honest with birth moms about openness. But the child isn't a possession. If their parents feel they aren't in a place where contact is a helpful thing, they should have the right to stop visits. They are the ones rising the child. Some kids are re-traumatized by seeing birth family and every time it happens it further damages them. At least for a period of time. A mom or dad should have a right to see that and halt visitations. It is not the same as visitation with a father after a divorce.

Of course, the birth mother should know this to be the case.
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