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Old 07-11-2018, 08:00 AM
 
9,134 posts, read 9,217,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoliz View Post
Scientific articles are google-able.
Yes, and those who claim their position is supported by science should google and share them. Unless, there really is nothing to their position.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:01 PM
 
1,409 posts, read 801,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoliz View Post
Scientific articles are google-able.
Google-able...I bet nobody can say it fast three times

And on the issue of trauma- yes indeed adoption creates trauma in both the natural mother and the infant.
Itís well, google-able!
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:19 PM
 
9,134 posts, read 9,217,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondayafternoons View Post
Google-able...I bet nobody can say it fast three times

And on the issue of trauma- yes indeed adoption creates trauma in both the natural mother and the infant.
Itís well, google-able!
If there were real scuentific support for adoption trauma someone would have linked to it and psted it by now. The silence speaks for itself.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:05 AM
 
Location: East Coast
3,149 posts, read 1,877,325 times
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I guess you are not able to use google, which surprises me given you are in an online forum. I don't need to do your work for you. If you don't think adoption trauma exists, I doubt there is anything I can do to convince you -- there is a ton of information out there about this. I don't even know where to start. You probably don't think racism exists, either, and I would be similarly unable to convince you otherwise.
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:20 PM
 
9,134 posts, read 9,217,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoliz View Post
I guess you are not able to use google, which surprises me given you are in an online forum. I don't need to do your work for you. If you don't think adoption trauma exists, I doubt there is anything I can do to convince you -- there is a ton of information out there about this. I don't even know where to start. You probably don't think racism exists, either, and I would be similarly unable to convince you otherwise.
I guess I am just supposed to believe anyone who says "I have this position and you can google articles that support it"?

It doesn't work that way. This essentially is a debate forum. If you are arguing in support of something, if the position has any substance, you should be able to link to studies, statistics, and medical journal articles that support it. If you fail to do that, essentially your argument is just your own opinion--and nothing more.

I believe your position lacks substance. Many other people believe it lacks substance as well.

For any neophytes here, let me just say this is not a new argument. You can find adoption forums on the internet with the same discussion taking place. People, like me, typically ask for scientific proof about all the alleged maladies that adoption causes. And, we get the same dog and pony show we have gotten here: Assertions that that proof exists, but never any citations to reputable or competent studies or articles.

Last edited by markg91359; 07-17-2018 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:47 PM
 
6,396 posts, read 1,273,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I guess I am just supposed to believe anyone who says "I have this position and you can google articles that support it"?

It doesn't work that way. This essentially is a debate forum. If you are arguing in support of something, if the position has any substance, you should be able to link to studies, statistics, and medical journal articles that support it. If you fail to do that, essentially your argument is just your own opinion--and nothing more.

I believe your position lacks substance. Many other people believe it lacks substance as well.

For any neophytes here, let me just say this is not a new argument. You can find adoption forums on the internet with the same discussion taking place. People, like me, typically ask for scientific proof about all the alleged maladies that adoption causes. And, we get the same dog and pony show we have gotten here: Assertions that that proof exists, but never any citations to reputable or competent studies or articles.
Well, here is just ONE article. I could give you many more links from behaviorists, but as this discusses the trauma in more scientific terms, it might be of interest to you. However, I think that if you were truly interested in learning instead of just debating, you would have done your own research by now. (And, yes, although there is no doubt in my mind that adoption is not traumatic, I do agree that personal stories, however many -- and there are hundreds if not thousands of adopters and adoptees who would confirm that adoption is very challenging due to the psychological issues involved in kids being removed from their parents, either voluntarily OR involuntarily -- is NOT actual proof.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3115616/

Note: The above article discusses how traumatic relatively short-term maternal-child separation is; one can only imagine how traumatic long-term separation might be.
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:13 PM
 
Location: East Coast
3,149 posts, read 1,877,325 times
Reputation: 4710
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I guess I am just supposed to believe anyone who says "I have this position and you can google articles that support it"?

It doesn't work that way. This essentially is a debate forum. If you are arguing in support of something, if the position has any substance, you should be able to link to studies, statistics, and medical journal articles that support it. If you fail to do that, essentially your argument is just your own opinion--and nothing more.

I believe your position lacks substance. Many other people believe it lacks substance as well.

For any neophytes here, let me just say this is not a new argument. You can find adoption forums on the internet with the same discussion taking place. People, like me, typically ask for scientific proof about all the alleged maladies that adoption causes. And, we get the same dog and pony show we have gotten here: Assertions that that proof exists, but never any citations to reputable or competent studies or articles.
It would be one thing if you said you had attempted to google and could not find any information at all about this. But that is clearly not true.

This isn't really a debate forum, although sometimes debates happen. A debate is where there are two valid sides. To claim that something doesn't exist, when there is lots of evidence it does isn't really a debate. It's just delusion.

No one in this thread has sided with you on this one. Perhaps you could link to these other threads where there has somehow been definitive proof that adoption trauma does not exist. They're probably in the same threads where folks claim there is no evidence for climate change and that the moon landings were faked. These "many other people" who believe my position "lacks substance" must be the same folks who Trump keeps hearing when he says "people are saying." Yeah. Okay.

I am in a large number of adoption groups and there is little disagreement that adoption trauma exists. Sometimes some newbies try to assert that it does not or that they do not believe it, but they often leave in a huff. They never look at any of the articles or books that are discussed. I also see a lot of saviorist types who are saving the kids for Jesus who deny it.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,884 posts, read 102,281,764 times
Reputation: 32946
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Yes, and those who claim their position is supported by science should google and share them. Unless, there really is nothing to their position.
Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden...of_(philosophy)
"The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi, shortened from Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat) is the obligation on a party in a dispute to provide sufficient warrant for their position."
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,390 posts, read 17,311,940 times
Reputation: 14022
There must be a way to adopt that doesn't cost much. I have two nieces (sisters) who, together, have adopted at least 10 children with their husbands. They're not wealthy at all. One is a part-time school psychologist, and her husband is a blue-collar worker for the county. The other is a stay-at-home mom, and her husband is also a blue-collar worker, a machinist or welder, iirc.

In at least most cases, they were foster parents for the children before they adopted them. The last one to adopt is about age 50 and got a new-born about 3 years ago. (They have children of various races, some quite intelligent and gifted, others not quite so much.)
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:24 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,122,267 times
Reputation: 48552
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
If there were real scuentific support for adoption trauma someone would have linked to it and psted it by now. The silence speaks for itself.
There is no scientific support for "adoption trauma". None. If links exist, they are from extremist, anti-adoption groups. There is no such thing as "pre verbal-trauma". Although, there are many cases of infanticide by immature girls who have found themselves with a child that was unplanned. Boyfriends of these girls, are also responsible for the murder and abuse of countless children born to overwhelmed, unmarried, and inadequate parents who are ill prepared for the task at hand.

No one knows for sure exactly how little Caylee Anthony was killed.

We do know this. She was conceived and born out of wedlock to a teenage mother who did not gradate from HS and never planned to have a child. In her "care" she was murdered. Casey Anthony was a party girl who became pregnant. She was not a mother.

Children deserve good families. They deserve adult parents. And good people who are inclined to open their homes to other people's children, deserve children.

Sadly, the most unsafe place for a pre-school child in the U.S. in in their mother's care. This is especially true when another, unrelated adult, usually a romantic interest of the mother, is living there or is involved with the work of caring for the child.
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