Zimbabwe in ruins (country, life, speak, culture)

[dadeguy]

Originally Posted by markg91359

I'll try to make this as short as I can.

Zimbabwe/Rhodesia was originally colonized by a group of white people lead by an Englishman, Cecil Rhodes. He's the same "Rhodes" who set aside money for the Rhode's scholarships, by the way. The white colonization of this area created a situation where by 1965 there were about 250,000 white settlers and over 6,000,000 Africans. Yet, the 250,000 whites possessed almost all of the political and economic power. Yet, the area remained the British Colony of "Rhodesia".

Following World War II, it became clear that the English were going to grant all their many colonies independence. It wasn't going to happen all at once, but preparations were undertaken for all of the territories colonized by the British in Africa to become independent. The English had a very tough experience in a colony neighboring Rhodesia that is the present day country of Kenya. A widespread revolt took place in this colony during the 1950's that is known as the "Mau Mau Uprising". The British sent in soldiers and went to great lengths to suppress this uprising. Thousands of Africans died in the revolt and even though a much smaller number of white people died, the revolt left a terrifying impression on the British authorities. They were determined to avoid a repeat of the "Mau Mau Uprising" elsewhere in Africa.

The British adopted a policy for all the colonies that can be summarized as "No Independence before Black Majority Rule". (NIBMAR) In essence, the British determined that they were not going to allow a minority white population to control any of the colonies following independence. This had grave implications for the colony of Rhodesia. Rhodesia was essentially ruling itself by the time independence became an issue. However, its government was totally controlled by the minority white population and the institutions were structured so that the huge black majority had no prospect of ever holding any real power.

The white Rhodesians elected a Prime Minister named Ian Smith who represented the old order. Smith, and his political party were determined that the native African population of Rhodesia would never have political control of the country. They perceived this would mean confiscation of their farms and the fortunes many had made during their years colonizing the country. Britain made it clear that not only it never grant independence to Rhodesia under those circumstances, but that it would work to establish a black majority government.

As a result, in 1965, Smith and his cadre purportedly declared their "independence" from Britain. Rhodesia was never able to gain diplomatic recognition from any country other than South Africa. A policy of international sanctions imposed by the international community gradually weakened Rhodesia. Robert Mugabe and others lead guerilla armies and began a war against Smith's government. By 1978, the *** was up for "Rhodesia". Smith was brought to his knees by both the war and international sanctions. After a brief return to British colonial rule, elections were held and Robert Mugabe was elected the leader of the new country of Zimbabwe.

Mugabe gradually transformed his government into a dictatorship. Things weren't too bad at first. Some speculated that Mugabe's wife was a moderating force and used what leverage she had to force him to treat the white settlers who remained in Zimbabwe with some degree of decency and fairness. She eventually died though and Mugabe allowed his followers to confiscate white farms and white property. As this occurred, the remaining whites left the country and the economic infrastructure of Zimbabwe simply collapsed.

Mugabe has ruled the country as a dictator and maintains control by bribing a few key friends and military people to support him. Any elections in the country are fraudulent. Supporters of other candidates are routinely kidnapped, tortured, and murdered.

In short, Mugabe got where he did because of : 1. shortsighted attempts by some to try to maintain white minority rule of the country; 2. a revolution which legitimized violence to many; 3. supporters who in exchange for bribes are willing to engage in murder and violence to maintain Mugabe as their leader; 4. an international community which is not able to do much; and 5. a population which is too terrorized to do anything about Mugabe.

Its a very sad situation and there is much blame to go around for it.

pretty much spot on. you are leaving out some important details though. I will attempt to tread lightly here but I'm compelled to say that in addition to your fine points we are all of us blinded to the 1000lb gorilla in the room where this type of discussion occurs. that gorilla is the nature of the sub equatorial africans themselves irrespective of which country they may abide in.

please don't accuse me of racism, I'm cuban and part black. by choice and not by economic necessity I live and raised my family in a mixed race community in the city of miami gardens, florida. I was educated in desegregated schools. my birth country does not discriminate and mixed marriages were never a problem. I come from a completely non discriminatory family. my grandmother was haitian.

I don't wish to cause offense but in my experience of fifty seven years of living on this planet, living in mixed race communities and having served my adoptive country, the united states of america in some of the world's hot spots I am now of the opinion that black people are about as violent a group of humans as there can be. additionally black people are about as ignorant as any racial group on earth. this is an awful combination to possess and in my opinion the the biggest mitigating factor in all of the failures of all of africa's sub saharan societies. look at the example of uganda under idi amin who expelled the indians and pakistanis who pretty much ran the store as it were, much to the detriment of all ugandans. ultimately the indo asians were called back much to betterment of that society.

the good news is the reason why south africa hasn't collapsed the way zimbabwe and other african republics have is because the very best elements of all of the members of that society black, asian and white have worked together for the good of the whole nation. let south africa be the example within africa as to how humans should live and work. maybe even look at the united states where in spite of a bumpy ride we are becoming less and less fixated on who came from where.

please forgive my seemingly harsh statements YMMV.

[Annuvin]

Originally Posted by DahomeyAhosi

Here's some news...Hutsis and Tutsis are different ethnic groups, but both are black African groups (largely invented by the Belgians). Therefore while the Rwandan genocide was brutal, it was an example of ethnocentrism, not of racism.

I am sure the families of those massacred will sleep better at night knowing that.

[Generic_Username]

IMO Africa is in the state it's in today and probably will be until the end of time because Black African elites have always been and still are the biggest sellouts to ever walk the face of the earth. All throughout history they have enslaved, sold, and abused there own people. All other racial groups have done similar things to other groups of people for periods of time to gain power and wealth, than they liberate those people. Africans have been doing it to there own sense the beginning time and never stopped. That's why the Black race as a whole is at the bottom of the totem pole. When your own people that are the ones making decisions don't give a damn about you and never have you are trapped in a perpetual never ending cycle where you are at the mercy of outsiders who really don't give a damn about you.

[DahomeyAhosi]

Originally Posted by Annuvin

I am sure the families of those massacred will sleep better at night knowing that.

You could simply admit that you're wrong instead of resorting to childish eye-rolling and other emoticons. However that would require maturity and it's clear that you possess little of that.

[dadeguy]

Originally Posted by Generic_Username

IMO Africa is in the state it's in today and probably will be until the end of time because Black African elites have always been and still are the biggest sellouts to ever walk the face of the earth. All throughout history they have enslaved, sold, and abused there own people. All other racial groups have done similar things to other groups of people for periods of time to gain power and wealth, than they liberate those people. Africans have been doing it to there own sense the beginning time and never stopped. That's why the Black race as a whole is at the bottom of the totem pole. When your own people that are the ones making decisions don't give a damn about you and never have you are trapped in a perpetual never ending cycle where you are at the mercy of outsiders who really don't give a damn about you.

clearly there is no question that african ruling elites have consistently sold out the african people. while no group owns the title of most violent I think the african leadership has demonstrated amply that they are the most violent and most ignorant consistently. much to the detriment of all concerned often including the oligarchs themselves.

[jmellc]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

How did he ruin Zimbabwe? He kicked out colonialist (or their descendants), has worked to get rid of a currency that was tied to colonialism (which is always going to result in high inflation) and is now on the road to recovery. The question that should be asked, is why don't more African leaders bite the bullet and throw off the colonial yoke as well? They tried in Cote D'ivore but those savage French played their little game in the background nicely. Hopefully someone in future will rise up and finish the job.

I recall watching the news here in the US in 1980. Mugabe had won the election and was sworn into office. He stated that he had been handed "a jewel of a country" and would work to make it a place of opportunity for all. In a little over 30 years, he appears to have turned that nation into a toilet bowl.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by dadeguy

clearly there is no question that african ruling elites have consistently sold out the african people. while no group owns the title of most violent I think the african leadership has demonstrated amply that they are the most violent and most ignorant consistently. much to the detriment of all concerned often including the oligarchs themselves.

Africa has been sold out over and over. Africa has long been thought of as a place to take everything from, and it keeps happening.

[tropical87]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Africa has been sold out over and over. Africa has long been thought of as a place to take everything from, and it keeps happening.

Yes, and no more is this thought prevalent than among the local Africans themselves

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by tropical87

Yes, and no more is this thought prevalent than among the local Africans themselves

The same thing happened under colonialism. The same happened under the slave trade no matter who participated in it. Right now, there are companies going into Africa to extract resources, but very little of that money benefits the local population.

[jmellc]

I have known a number of Black Africans from Liberia, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia & Senegal. Very intelligent & likable people. Those I have talked with in depth often say the native cultures make it difficult for a person to "rise above" their situations. In some places, tribal battles still happen. I knew people from 2 different tribes in a particular nation. They were friends here in the US but would have been enemies "back home". In fact their 2 tribes were major players on opposite sides of a civil war in that nation.

I have long thought that most all human beings have high intelligence and ability. But a culture can inhibit the use of it until a person loses the ability to think & reason for himself. A perfect example would be farm seizures in Zimbabwe. I read in "House of Stone" and other books about "war vets" seizing a farm. After eating whatever food the farm family had left, they would sell off the farm equipment to buy food. Later, they would rip out water pumps, water pipe, etc. and sell that for food money. The farm family had grown food there. Those who seized the farm had no idea how to grow food, tend livestock, etc. The farm did them no good and that meant 1 less farm providing food for that nation. Multiply that by hundreds & what do you have? A food crisis. Less food, higher prices.

Tradition can be a great and honorable institution. It can also keep a person or nation mired in poverty.