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As was mentioned, Afrikaaners are not all Dutch by ancestry, but like the United States being multi-cultural but Anglo-derived, it's still a predominantly Dutch-derived culture, from the language, customs, food.etc. I also agree with the other posters: British Australians or Afrikaaners are not fully indigenous: they've imported foreign languages, social customs, livestock.etc. When they start eating grubs and bush food instead of roast beef then I'll buy it.
I'd say since most white South Africans speak Afrikaaners, there's more Dutch influence (also German, French.etc), but the British influence is certainly there especially in the western Cape Province and Jo'burg.
“Like the USA” - the historical and demographic conditions of the USA are not similar to South Africa. Comparing the degree of multiculturalism and historic ethnic pluralism and immigration in the US to South Africa’s limited history of the same is flawed.
Purely anecdotal here but back when I was in college, we had quite a few white south african and Zimbabwen students. I'm Nigerian and was part of the International Student Organization. I can say with certainty that those white african students all mingled with white American students. While they were polite to the black African students whenever they came across us, never hostile or anything but they clearly did not socialize with us at all. I would say that for us black African students, we had far more interaction with students from Latin America/Carribean, Middle East and ironically enough, European students. Those students were far more friendly than our alleged African brethren from Southern Africa. On the other hand, the black students from Zimbabwe/South Africa hung out with us.
Now this is not to accuse the white students of being racist. But it does emphasize the point that while geographically they may be African, in terms of culture and mindset they are not. They may deny their European heritage by calling themselves African, but that is their natural grouping with whom they belong and feel most comfortable. Nothing wrong with that.
Purely anecdotal here but back when I was in college, we had quite a few white south african and Zimbabwen students. I'm Nigerian and was part of the International Student Organization. I can say with certainty that those white african students all mingled with white American students. While they were polite to the black African students whenever they came across us, never hostile or anything but they clearly did not socialize with us at all. I would say that for us black African students, we had far more interaction with students from Latin America/Carribean, Middle East and ironically enough, European students. Those students were far more friendly than our alleged African brethren from Southern Africa. On the other hand, the black students from Zimbabwe/South Africa hung out with us.
Now this is not to accuse the white students of being racist. But it does emphasize the point that while geographically they may be African, in terms of culture and mindset they are not. They may deny their European heritage by calling themselves African, but that is their natural grouping with whom they belong and feel most comfortable. Nothing wrong with that.
I noticed that in college too and even when I used to go to church. I remember the Africans and Indians and Asians tended to more hang out with each other, than with Whites. The Whites generally preferred to associate with other Whites. The White South Africans usually hanged out with White people, and of course the White South Africans saw themselves as from Africa, would usually hang out with white Australians and White Americans rather than Black or Asian peoples. White Americans I observed here in Australia tended to more hang out with white Australians, than dark skin people, where they are immigrant or born here.
Yet of course I did observe people from Europe, they were more open to hang out with non-White people than White Australians and White South Africans.
Anyway a few years ago there were several politicians in Australia that really wanted and asked for White South African farmers to seek refuge in Australia and wanted them fast tracked to come here. These politicians claim these farmers have a similar value and culture to Australians, and these are the refuges that will truly benefit Australia. Yet at the same time Australia was then reducing the amount of Black Africans refuges in Australia. A few of those politicans that wanted the White farmers from South AFrica to seek refuge in Australia claimed the Black AFrican immigrants in Australia was causing too many problems and claimed certain areas where Black African areas dominate are no go areas.
It was racist as Australia, then was imprisoning for years brown and black skin people who were claiming refugee in Australia, and people in detention for more than 6 years there, and the living conditions were poor there, people beaten up by the guards, and there were cases of sexual assault by the guards, and the Australian government at the same time said they will never be allowed to settle in Australia. In many ways they eventually deported them back to their country of origin, and there are cases of people that were deported that were murdered back in their own country....Yet White South African farmers still can't seek refuge in Australia and are only allowed if they have the money and skills to come to Australia. As Australia immigration policy is to really encourage skilled workers and people with plenty of money, and with that and many, many White Africans have taken advantage of that and have moved to Australia.
Our close friends who were from South Africa illustrate the diversity of that country. His parents were Greek immigrants to SA, she went there as an adult, to work, from her native Germany. They decided to emigrate to Australia as they believed it offered more for their children and they never returned. I think he identified as much Greek as South African, but spoke Afrikkans, Greek and English.
I know there is a sizeable Indian background population in SA, and also Jewish. Very much the rainbow nation.
Our close friends who were from South Africa illustrate the diversity of that country. His parents were Greek immigrants to SA, she went there as an adult, to work, from her native Germany. They decided to emigrate to Australia as they believed it offered more for their children and they never returned. I think he identified as much Greek as South African, but spoke Afrikkans, Greek and English.
I know there is a sizeable Indian background population in SA, and also Jewish. Very much the rainbow nation.
Well I knew well a South African Jew, but English was his first language. He saw himself as both Jewish and South African. Lots of South African Jews here in Australia. IN the last 40 years, the Jewish community in here in Sydney has grown thanks to the Jews immigrating here from South Africa as well as Russia.
I noticed that in college too and even when I used to go to church. I remember the Africans and Indians and Asians tended to more hang out with each other, than with Whites. The Whites generally preferred to associate with other Whites. The White South Africans usually hanged out with White people, and of course the White South Africans saw themselves as from Africa, would usually hang out with white Australians and White Americans rather than Black or Asian peoples. White Americans I observed here in Australia tended to more hang out with white Australians, than dark skin people, where they are immigrant or born here.
Yet of course I did observe people from Europe, they were more open to hang out with non-White people than White Australians and White South Africans.
Anyway a few years ago there were several politicians in Australia that really wanted and asked for White South African farmers to seek refuge in Australia and wanted them fast tracked to come here. These politicians claim these farmers have a similar value and culture to Australians, and these are the refuges that will truly benefit Australia. Yet at the same time Australia was then reducing the amount of Black Africans refuges in Australia. A few of those politicans that wanted the White farmers from South AFrica to seek refuge in Australia claimed the Black AFrican immigrants in Australia was causing too many problems and claimed certain areas where Black African areas dominate are no go areas.
It was racist as Australia, then was imprisoning for years brown and black skin people who were claiming refugee in Australia, and people in detention for more than 6 years there, and the living conditions were poor there, people beaten up by the guards, and there were cases of sexual assault by the guards, and the Australian government at the same time said they will never be allowed to settle in Australia. In many ways they eventually deported them back to their country of origin, and there are cases of people that were deported that were murdered back in their own country....Yet White South African farmers still can't seek refuge in Australia and are only allowed if they have the money and skills to come to Australia. As Australia immigration policy is to really encourage skilled workers and people with plenty of money, and with that and many, many White Africans have taken advantage of that and have moved to Australia.
I don't recall it ever been any official government policy to call white south Africans refugees? So by some you are talking a radical right type faction?
I don't recall it ever been any official government policy to call white south Africans refugees? So by some you are talking a radical right type faction?
I do remember the discussion. I think it was when there were the farm invasions in Zimbabwe. Was it Howard who was pushing for them to be considered as refugees?
Purely anecdotal here but back when I was in college, we had quite a few white south african and Zimbabwen students. I'm Nigerian and was part of the International Student Organization. I can say with certainty that those white african students all mingled with white American students. While they were polite to the black African students whenever they came across us, never hostile or anything but they clearly did not socialize with us at all. I would say that for us black African students, we had far more interaction with students from Latin America/Carribean, Middle East and ironically enough, European students. Those students were far more friendly than our alleged African brethren from Southern Africa. On the other hand, the black students from Zimbabwe/South Africa hung out with us.
Now this is not to accuse the white students of being racist. But it does emphasize the point that while geographically they may be African, in terms of culture and mindset they are not. They may deny their European heritage by calling themselves African, but that is their natural grouping with whom they belong and feel most comfortable. Nothing wrong with that.
Another anecdote but I was surprised to see black Africans that had grown up in Nigeria and west Africa; moved to the USA as adults, becoming more comfortable around middle class and upper income Americans of all races and cultures and not enjoying having to deal with Africans back home. Apparently they became successful and assimilated into American culture and no longer wanted anything to do with the African mentality. i.e. corruption, patronage etc. A matter of socio economic class and not race.
I don't recall it ever been any official government policy to call white south Africans refugees? So by some you are talking a radical right type faction?
Well when the home affairs minister at that time who was Peter Dutton, suggested it and wanted to fast track them for refugee status. Some Liberal National politicians on the right as Andrew Hastie put an add in a national newspaper and claimed there was white genocide back in South Africa and with it put a picture of a white woman beaten up, assumed she was bashed up at her farm back in South Africa and called for White farmers to be granted refugee status. Andrew Haste electorate had many South Africans, and several other Western Australian Liberal/National politicians which had a large amount of South Africans living there expressed support for giving White South African farmers refugee status. Former Prime Minister Tony Abbot also called for Australia to pay attention to the White farmers of South Africa and give them refugee status. Yet at the National Liberal/National conference soon after, most of the politicians did not want a change in policy of granting white South African farmers refugee status yet will still follow the situation over there. Of course White South African farmers still can apply to move to Australia, as a skilled worker, and have the money to come here. Same if a skilled black worker can apply to live to Australia to live if they have the fiances. Yet many White South African farmers don't have the money to come out here, and also many are too old to be eligible to come out here, and many South Africans here in Australia are still striving to lobby the government to allow their relatives to move to Australia if they are too old or can't afford it.
Last edited by herenow1; 10-23-2022 at 08:42 PM..
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