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Old 08-22-2015, 08:54 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,156 posts, read 9,943,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I'm not advocating colonialism. There were alot more bad going on than good when it came to colonialism. However, I have often wondered what would happen if Russia had colonized some places in Africa for a long period of time. In The Scramble for Africa, the continent was being carved up by Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, and Spain. Russia tried to get a piece of the action in the Sagallo Incident. Sagallo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Basically, Russia tried to take part of Djibouti, which was controlled by the French. It ended in failure.

I think about the colonial policies the colonizing nations had. For instance, France had direct rule(with elements of assimilation policy). German and Belgian colonialism was particularly cruel, basically a cruel form of paternalism. Italy's colonial policy, from what I gather, had a preservation policy. Portugal's colonial policy had a mixture of direct rule, paternalism, and assimilation. Spain had some paternalism elements. British rule was more indirect rule. Colonialism had forced labor and cruelty involved.

What I am wondering is this. If Russia had been part of the Scramble for Africa, and carved out a portion of Africa for itself, what do you think the colonial policy would have been like? What do you think would have happened?
Probably even if the Russians had gotten involved in African colonial rule in say the 1800s, it would have ended around WW1. I seen a couple of posts discussing what would have happened if Russia (actually the Soviet Union) still had African territory during the Cold War. Very interesting question but I don't think it would have reached that stage. Here is an example why:

1800s - Russia joins the colonial race and acquires a few African colonies as "coaling stations" for ships
1914-1918 - World War 1
1918 - Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. The Russians transfer their African colonies to Germany. (In real life if the Soviets were willing to give up parts of Russia, they would certainly be willing to transfer the colonies to the Germans).
1918 - Although the Germans now have legal title to the former Russian colonies, the colonies are immediately occupied by the Western Allies still at war with Germany.
1919 - Treaty of Versailles. The Germans give up all of their colonies including the former Russian colonies to the Western Allies.
1920 - Lenin demands the complete independence of the former colonies but is refused. Nor will the Allies return them to the Soviet Union. They do not want any communist territory or influence in Africa.

Thus the "Russian African Empire" if it ever existed, would have gone down at almost the same time as its real life counterpart, the German African Empire.
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Old 08-24-2015, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
3,986 posts, read 2,247,081 times
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I don't know if it's true or if it's just a big internet joke/hoax but I've heard rumors that there is tribe of African cannibals that speak perfect 18th (or 19th, I forgot) century Russian. Has anyone heard of this?
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:19 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 29 days ago)
 
48,389 posts, read 45,654,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Probably even if the Russians had gotten involved in African colonial rule in say the 1800s, it would have ended around WW1. I seen a couple of posts discussing what would have happened if Russia (actually the Soviet Union) still had African territory during the Cold War. Very interesting question but I don't think it would have reached that stage. Here is an example why:

1800s - Russia joins the colonial race and acquires a few African colonies as "coaling stations" for ships
1914-1918 - World War 1
1918 - Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. The Russians transfer their African colonies to Germany. (In real life if the Soviets were willing to give up parts of Russia, they would certainly be willing to transfer the colonies to the Germans).
1918 - Although the Germans now have legal title to the former Russian colonies, the colonies are immediately occupied by the Western Allies still at war with Germany.
1919 - Treaty of Versailles. The Germans give up all of their colonies including the former Russian colonies to the Western Allies.
1920 - Lenin demands the complete independence of the former colonies but is refused. Nor will the Allies return them to the Soviet Union. They do not want any communist territory or influence in Africa.

Thus the "Russian African Empire" if it ever existed, would have gone down at almost the same time as its real life counterpart, the German African Empire.
That could be one scenario that could take place. But how could it be argued that the Russian Empire would only establish coaling stations?

There is something else I have thought about. Russia might have been willing to give up parts of Russia. On the other hand, there were some valuable resources in Africa, such as the land itself, and a warmer climate.

Originally, I wanted to talk about the colonial policy the Russian Empire might have had over colonies in Africa, if the Russian Empire had colonies in Africa.
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:25 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 29 days ago)
 
48,389 posts, read 45,654,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I don't know if it's true or if it's just a big internet joke/hoax but I've heard rumors that there is tribe of African cannibals that speak perfect 18th (or 19th, I forgot) century Russian. Has anyone heard of this?
I've heard rumors, not of cannibals though.

On the other hand, Russian poet Aleksandr Pushkin had an Ethiopian Great Grandfather.
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
3,986 posts, read 2,247,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I've heard rumors, not of cannibals though.

On the other hand, Russian poet Aleksandr Pushkin had an Ethiopian Great Grandfather.
Yes I've heard of pushkin's great grand father Abram Gannibal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abra...ovich_Gannibal some people say he was actually from chad. He was a high ranking general and his desendents were also of high status including some in the British nobility.
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Old 09-01-2015, 07:20 PM
 
2,862 posts, read 3,782,304 times
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Who cares? Be glad at least one major European power didn't come in to try and stir things up.

I'm going to get flamed for this, but there is a small but vocal subset of the Black Diaspora who are all about whitey 24/7. Either trying to please them/kiss up (self-hate), or blame them for something (hate-hate). Africa will never move forward until it takes control over it's own destiny.
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:32 PM
 
387 posts, read 272,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
Who cares? Be glad at least one major European power didn't come in to try and stir things up.

I'm going to get flamed for this, but there is a small but vocal subset of the Black Diaspora who are all about whitey 24/7. Either trying to please them/kiss up (self-hate), or blame them for something (hate-hate). Africa will never move forward until it takes control over it's own destiny.

All of Eastern Europe never colonized Africa....Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Greece, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland/Sweden (technically Scandinavia), Estonia etc etc never colonized Africa and were never involved in the Atlantic Slave Trade....

Ireland was also never involved in any of that....

Only Western Europeans colonized Africa...
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:36 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,781 posts, read 74,782,583 times
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they are about to colonize syria right now. that is western asia not very far away from africa.
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:00 PM
 
921 posts, read 557,877 times
Reputation: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I'm not advocating colonialism. There were alot more bad going on than good when it came to colonialism. However, I have often wondered what would happen if Russia had colonized some places in Africa for a long period of time. In The Scramble for Africa, the continent was being carved up by Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, and Spain. Russia tried to get a piece of the action in the Sagallo Incident. Sagallo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Basically, Russia tried to take part of Djibouti, which was controlled by the French. It ended in failure.

I think about the colonial policies the colonizing nations had. For instance, France had direct rule(with elements of assimilation policy). German and Belgian colonialism was particularly cruel, basically a cruel form of paternalism. Italy's colonial policy, from what I gather, had a preservation policy. Portugal's colonial policy had a mixture of direct rule, paternalism, and assimilation. Spain had some paternalism elements. British rule was more indirect rule. Colonialism had forced labor and cruelty involved.

What I am wondering is this. If Russia had been part of the Scramble for Africa, and carved out a portion of Africa for itself, what do you think the colonial policy would have been like? What do you think would have happened?
Judging by the way they treated native Siberians and Alaskans I think their policy would be closer to the Belgian model than the British/French.
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Old 10-13-2015, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,202 posts, read 1,432,646 times
Reputation: 1363
They would be moscowgerians. In Nigeria and KGB in Sudan?
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