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Old 11-25-2012, 07:48 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,182,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
I assume you've never visited any country in Africa. When you spend at least a month living in one and not on a safari company tour, then your opinion may have value. Not until then.
And why would I, as an openly gay man, visit a country that would kill me simply for existing? I'll keep to calling them out for the savages they are from the safety of my computer desk, thank you.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Sometimes Miami sometimes Australia
1,093 posts, read 2,288,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
How open minded and tolerant you are...

Typical liberals.
Yes, here you are calling out others for not being tolerant - tolerant of a culture and people that would no sooner kill them for nothing more than being different. If that is your definition of 'tolerance', then I want to be anything but
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,546,388 times
Reputation: 36101
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneTraveler View Post
You should keep the liberal and conservative talk for the politics forum.

And why the hell should I be open minded to countries that kill people because of what consenting adults do in their bedrooms?
You are probably old enough (I know that I am) to have pledged allegiance to the flag of a country that imprisoned consenting adults for that they did in their bedrooms.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,123 posts, read 4,767,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneTraveler View Post
And why would I, as an openly gay man, visit a country that would kill me simply for existing? I'll keep to calling them out for the savages they are from the safety of my computer desk, thank you.
When did I tell you or anyone to visit? I visit there. Others I know visit there. I have a gay friend who was born there and has done a lot of help the former child soldiers, but now he's afraid to go back. I find that tragic and very sad as he considers Uganda his true home. I have many good friends there and I'll continue to visit them. I have no idea what their views are and I certainly would never ask.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,546,388 times
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If you're gay and want to visit Uganda, you will not be in any danger unless you choose to have sex with a person of the same gender while you are there.

Meanwhile, in Saudi Arabia and probably several other similar countries, you would be at exactly the same kind of risk if you were heterosexual, and chose to have casual sex with a person of the opposite gender while you are there. Uganda is not unique in its laws regarding casual sex. And the fact that an American cannot go anywhere and have marital sex with a same-gender spouse is America's fault, not Uganda's.

For all the publicity being aroused by this bill in Uganda, it is no more outrageous than the laws being flung about in Red States here in the USA, where some legislators actually propose legislation that is tantamount to executing a woman for using some forms of birth control.

In the USA there are dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of laws for which there has never been a single prosecution, except in concert with a long list of charges that can be laid against a suspect that they are determined to make an example of. (Example: "Possession of forgery tools", which could be a ball point pen.) Even if this law passes, it is highly improbable that any Ugandan who is otherwise innocent of any wrongdoing would ever be executed for nothing but homosexual relations. Just like the laws in a Red State would never actually send a woman to the electric chair for using birth control, even though there would be a law that would theoretically enable such an outcome.

The article in the OP neatly avoids stating just what would be illegal under the new law. However, most African countries already have laws that can imprison any person for any homosexual contact (almost never enforced except in cases that would be rape in any case), and the bill in Uganda that is now being considered has been rewritten, and no longer carries the death penalty. In fact, even the Uganda law would be applicable only in circumstances in which heterosexual relations would also be criminal, such as under-age or coercion.

Last edited by jtur88; 11-27-2012 at 03:10 PM..
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:25 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,182,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You are probably old enough (I know that I am) to have pledged allegiance to the flag of a country that imprisoned consenting adults for that they did in their bedrooms.
Actually, I never pledged allegiance to the American flag while homosexuality was still a crime. Granted, I was raised Jehovah's Witness and we didn't do that. I do pledge alliance to the flag now of course.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:40 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,182,498 times
Reputation: 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
When did I tell you or anyone to visit? I visit there. Others I know visit there. I have a gay friend who was born there and has done a lot of help the former child soldiers, but now he's afraid to go back. I find that tragic and very sad as he considers Uganda his true home. I have many good friends there and I'll continue to visit them. I have no idea what their views are and I certainly would never ask.
Hah. Do tell this gay friend (or any other gay friend of yours) that you have other friends that wish he was dead? I would probably bet you wouldn't have gay friends.

I also have an aquaintance who is infactuated with Uganda. He goes over twice a year and does all types of humanitarian work. He once asked if I would contribute to one of his causes (building a school), and I non-regretably declined. I explained my reasoning and he understood my grounds of course, and never again asked me to be involved in any of his Ugandian messiah stuff. I just don't see why a people who are always looking to genocide minorities, whether they be ethnic or sexual, should be given friendship or aid as if their backwards thinking of how the world works should be forgiven or ignored.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:52 PM
 
2,538 posts, read 4,047,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
But here is one that is. The legal age of consent in almost every country in the world is 16 or under, but if an American citizen goes to Uganda and sends a sexually coercive e-mail to a 16-year old in, say, Italy, that American citizen can be arrested, prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned when arriving back in the USA. Even though what he did was perfectly legal in both those countries. And the US government has a copy of that e-mail for evidence. Where is your outrage about your own country's stupid and invasive sex laws?

http://www.worldvision.org/resources...le/stp_law.pdf
I never understood how this law has withstood the constitutional whiff test. How the US can assert jurisdictional authority over the activities of one of its citizens abroad is beyond me. If I smoke a joint in Amsterdam can I also be charged with drug possession in the US? Then again the US thinks it is the world's policeman, so I guess this pattern of behavior is well established.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:00 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,182,498 times
Reputation: 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If you're gay and want to visit Uganda, you will not be in any danger unless you choose to have sex with a person of the same gender while you are there.

Meanwhile, in Saudi Arabia and probably several other similar countries, you would be at exactly the same kind of risk if you were heterosexual, and chose to have casual sex with a person of the opposite gender while you are there. Uganda is not unique in its laws regarding casual sex. And the fact that an American cannot go anywhere and have marital sex with a same-gender spouse is America's fault, not Uganda's.

For all the publicity being aroused by this bill in Uganda, it is no more outrageous than the laws being flung about in Red States here in the USA, where some legislators actually propose legislation that is tantamount to executing a woman for using some forms of birth control.

In the USA there are dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of laws for which there has never been a single prosecution, except in concert with a long list of charges that can be laid against a suspect that they are determined to make an example of. (Example: "Possession of forgery tools", which could be a ball point pen.) Even if this law passes, it is highly improbable that any Ugandan who is otherwise innocent of any wrongdoing would ever be executed for nothing but homosexual relations. Just like the laws in a Red State would never actually send a woman to the electric chair for using birth control, even though there would be a law that would theoretically enable such an outcome.

The article in the OP neatly avoids stating just what would be illegal under the new law. However, most African countries already have laws that can imprison any person for any homosexual contact (almost never enforced except in cases that would be rape in any case), and the bill in Uganda that is now being considered has been rewritten, and no longer carries the death penalty. In fact, even the Uganda law would be applicable only in circumstances in which heterosexual relations would also be criminal, such as under-age or coercion.
No. It would be punishable with death if the act was deemed aggravated (which can be used for all types of twisted gains), and it would be punishable with life in prison if two consenting adults were charged with consensual sex. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_...sexuality_Bill
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,123 posts, read 4,767,071 times
Reputation: 3273
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneTraveler View Post
Hah. Do tell this gay friend (or any other gay friend of yours) that you have other friends that wish he was dead? I would probably bet you wouldn't have gay friends.

I also have an aquaintance who is infactuated with Uganda. He goes over twice a year and does all types of humanitarian work. He once asked if I would contribute to one of his causes (building a school), and I non-regretably declined. I explained my reasoning and he understood my grounds of course, and never again asked me to be involved in any of his Ugandian messiah stuff. I just don't see why a people who are always looking to genocide minorities, whether they be ethnic or sexual, should be given friendship or aid as if their backwards thinking of how the world works should be forgiven or ignored.
Obviously you've only read these posts half-as*ed. What friends of mine are you referring to that want my gay friend dead? My friend has spent many years in Uganda off and on and he knows full well how many Ugandans feel about gays. He's had a couple of gay friends there who were murdered. I don't know how any of my Ugandan friends feel about it as I've only discussed it with one Ugandan - she and many of her friends at university think this law is outrageous. I find it hard to believe any of my other Ugandan friends think gays should be executed as they are kind, warm, lovely people.
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