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Old 12-09-2012, 11:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
IMO the number one reason sub-saharan countries in Africa are poor - corruption. Corruption is accepted by the populations are a part of life that can't be changed.
This corruption is related to weak legal/judical systems in many African countries. These weak laws are connected to property rights also. These weak judical systems in Africa can't do the best jobs of dealing with corruption and in many countries since property rights laws are weak the gov't can take things from people with ease adding to the overall corruption of a country.

Check my thread on "Legalizing African Development".
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post

But given everything equal, the place with better property right laws will outpace economically another area with less property rights.
But everything else is not equal, and this thread should be seeking the more important of those other things.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
They are essential. Even in the USA studies have found that poor folks who own their own homes are more engaged in the fortunes of their neighborhood. Property rights is not a magic bullet other ingredients are needed human capital for one but it's an important ingredient.
I don't think you can apply the US model to Africa and draw the same conclusions. Nearly everyone in rural Africa and many in cities own their own homes, and often, literally built it with their own hands. Property rights might not be highly sophisticated as points of law, but the people believe they own their homes, and act as if they do, and are empowered accordingly, both individually and as a part of a fixed and cohesive community. They might not own the land their home is built on, but in that cases, their security rests on the lack of property rights, which prevents any supposed landlord from evicting them.

You can bet that when rich men in suits in the capital impose property rights on the citizenry, it is for the purpose of using property rights to increase the wealth of rich men in suits.

Last edited by jtur88; 12-09-2012 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:55 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
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For a poor, unorganized country to get out of the endless cycle of violence, thievery, corruption and general lack of education among the populance is a very difficult thing. In a successful, modern society, there needs to be some common feeling that everyone is a member of the same country and group, not a member of some tribe whose sole purpose is to have endless conflicts with the other tribe down the road.

There needs to be a secure constitution that upholds property rights, human rights, freedom of speech, separation of church and state, freedom of and/or from religion, a fair legal system that is or really tries to be impartial, and much more. The population must need to feel security for their selves , family, their rights as citizens, and of course property ownership and financial institutions needs to be firmed up and secure.

The government needs to represent all people, not just the ruling tribe or whoever happens to be friends that week with the Leader. The Leader needs to recognize that he or she should be no more than a servant to the people, and the people need to know they can criticize the Leader and the government without fear of death or torture. Such being said, the constitution itself needs to be bigger and more important that whoever is in charge and should last no matter who is in charge or who gets replaced.

The military of the country needs to realize they are also servants of the people, and their duties are not to terrorize anyone they don't like and they need to have some checks and balances on the use of their time and talent. The population should never fear their own military and should be able to count on the military protecting them, their rights, property, etc..

A person should also be able to travel anywhere in their own country with out fear of death, harrassment, or shakedowns. Building a society takes a great amount of hard work by many people, the forgiveness of old wrongs, and a general feeling that the future can be changed for the better. And this is just the start......

Last edited by CountryCarr; 12-13-2012 at 05:03 PM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Southern California native, last 20 yrs in Milwaukee Wisc.
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Racial demographics seem to be a pretty consistent indicator of poverty, whether in a city, or an entire continent.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Originally Posted by CountryCarr View Post
For a poor, unorganized country to get out of the endless cycle of violence, thievery . . .

The poor countries that I've been in (and Ive been in a lot of them) are less prone to violence and thievery than the rich ones in general and the USA in particular.

I fact, the rich countries in general and the USA in particular owe their economic success to violence and thievery. By murdering just about everyone who previously occupied the land, and by going around the world using threats of violence to steal the natural resources (not to mention slaves) from poor countries.

It's true that a few third world countries are going through a cycle of civil disorder and disregard for fellow citizens (so you need not list them), but they are in the minority, and in fact a tiny one. It could be argued that a poor country is not likely to become rich until it masters the art of violence and thievery and learns to use it systematically.

Last edited by jtur88; 12-13-2012 at 09:12 PM..
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Delray Beach
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Culturally evolved, intelligent populations will be richer in the long run.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:44 AM
 
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To reiterate. Property Rights and legal reforms in general are very important for developing African countries mainly because they can help to reduce the conflicts on the continent that are keeping development from happening. Not knowing who legally owns land is a big contributor to these African conflicts.


Quote:

African land reform, plot by plot, may be the foundation for solving so much else from famine to poverty to genocide.

Africa's continental divide: land disputes - CSMonitor.com
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
To reiterate. Property Rights and legal reforms in general are very important for developing African countries mainly because they can help to reduce the conflicts on the continent that are keeping development from happening. Not knowing who legally owns land is a big contributor to these African conflicts.
I can't see where Property Rights reform would be of any value, before a protocol was established that would resolve disputes over who already owns land. You can have all the property rights you want, going forward, but how does that reduce any conflicts left unresolved from the past? Furthermore, you can be sure that international bankers will see that the deeds to any real property in dispute will fall in the laps of the already rich.

When a very poor country tries to institute the systems of very rich countries, they will soon discover a cost that they can ill afford, and which is even breaking rich countries -- legal fees and court costs.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I can't see where Property Rights reform would be of any value, before a protocol was established that would resolve disputes over who already owns land. You can have all the property rights you want, going forward, but how does that reduce any conflicts left unresolved from the past?
You can resolve both past and present disputes over property ownership through a legal process. Then have ownership of the land/property titled and recorded. One of the main reasons for those past disputes has been because many countries have had weak legal systems that couldn't be used to settle those past disputes. How else would you resolve those past disputes other than through a legal process?

Africas legal system needs reform-Akuffo - ModernGhana.com
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