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Old 03-08-2013, 08:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Redrawing boundaries might not happen because it could be too complicated to decide on how to redraw them. I think it's more that African regions need to allow for better intra regional trade between countries.
Yes- the unnecessary red-tape/ long waiting lines African truckers face at border checkpoints, was one point mentioned in this editorial in this week's "Economist" magazine which summarizes Africa's overall position today The world

Here is also some historical background Berlin Conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:34 AM
 
Location: La Isla Encanta, Puerto Rico
1,148 posts, read 3,033,135 times
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I'm surprised that no one yet has suggested Africa needs to get bigger and smaller at the same time. I've worked in two West African countries and travelled on R&R leave to 4 more East and southern African nations. I agree that something is said for dividing te pie up smaller by tribal historical lines - certainly greater political stability, parties by idealogical lines, not tribal lines, etc. However you then have great misalignments between natural resources, power of armies, etc. that will lead to one-sided wars.

I'd suggest letting the countries "go small" along tribal lines create out of the whole continent of Africa a huge "Afro-Zone" along the lines of the "Euro-Zone" with one currency, totally free trade, etc. that would make every mini-nation really just a "ethnic neighorhood" of one country with all pieces of the puzzle needing to cooperate and trade resources and manufactured goods freely(tarrifs and taxes) and without friction (too many regulations). If Africans are getting very rich cooperating, there will be no incentive to war and civil insurrection.

Would this be easy? . No. It is a very diverse continent. An Egyptian college professor in Alexandria, a Nigerian reservoir engineer in Lagos, a wealthy white allegedly homicidal bladerunner ( 100 Rand goes to the first to identify his country) and a Tuareg sheep-hearder in the mountains of northern Mali don't have a lot in common but they are ALL Africans. If you can wealthier and more powerful by trading, manufacturing, developing knowledge-based industries than you can by stealing each others gold, diamond and oil-producing lands all that warfare and civil unrest might stop. Thus the advantage of a "United States of Africa" or "Afro-Zone" (the readers can pick the final name).
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Denver
3,192 posts, read 2,643,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamba_boy View Post
I'm surprised that no one yet has suggested Africa needs to get bigger and smaller at the same time. I've worked in two West African countries and travelled on R&R leave to 4 more East and southern African nations. I agree that something is said for dividing te pie up smaller by tribal historical lines - certainly greater political stability, parties by idealogical lines, not tribal lines, etc. However you then have great misalignments between natural resources, power of armies, etc. that will lead to one-sided wars.

I'd suggest letting the countries "go small" along tribal lines create out of the whole continent of Africa a huge "Afro-Zone" along the lines of the "Euro-Zone" with one currency, totally free trade, etc. that would make every mini-nation really just a "ethnic neighorhood" of one country with all pieces of the puzzle needing to cooperate and trade resources and manufactured goods freely(tarrifs and taxes) and without friction (too many regulations). If Africans are getting very rich cooperating, there will be no incentive to war and civil insurrection.

Would this be easy? . No. It is a very diverse continent. An Egyptian college professor in Alexandria, a Nigerian reservoir engineer in Lagos, a wealthy white allegedly homicidal bladerunner ( 100 Rand goes to the first to identify his country) and a Tuareg sheep-hearder in the mountains of northern Mali don't have a lot in common but they are ALL Africans. If you can wealthier and more powerful by trading, manufacturing, developing knowledge-based industries than you can by stealing each others gold, diamond and oil-producing lands all that warfare and civil unrest might stop. Thus the advantage of a "United States of Africa" or "Afro-Zone" (the readers can pick the final name).
Exactly what I was thinking, but you phrased it better. I think the 19th and 20th century definition of countries and nations needs to be redefined for a 21st century world. I would suggest the same think for parts of South America as well.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 4,785,954 times
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Here are a few maps that I've found:








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Old 02-02-2014, 09:44 PM
 
4,654 posts, read 3,708,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
allow self determination in all of SubSaharan Africa, except in Nigeria and South Africa
Why do Nigeria or South Africa represent any exception ?
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:45 PM
hvl
 
403 posts, read 440,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post

...
Basically countries that keep descending further into tribal politics and not global realities are often basically dividing themselves into smaller and weaker nations. Heard any exciting economic news out of East Timor lately? A better option for Africa would be more regional confederations of some of those smaller entities.
It depends on the small tribe or nation involved.
Singapore got kicked out (?) or Malaysia. I read that Lee Kwan Yew was very affected by that separation. In any case, it might have been for the better because Singapore spent all its energy on itself and the result speaks for itself. Imagine if all the talent of Singapore had been siphoned off to the rest of Malaysia.

I never expected anything from east-Timor, on the other hand.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:50 AM
 
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The three major powers of Africa (South Africa, Nigeria, Egypt) can remain on its own. The rest of the entire African continent integrate into one single federation. I think it works well because their economic systems are still very raw, when they develop they can be compatible with the US, EU, and China.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Allendale MI
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Nigeria, the DRC,Mali needs to be split. Ethiopia and Eritrea need to combine. Kenya, Uganda Tanzania Rwanda Burndi need to become the United states of East Africa
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:17 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,435 posts, read 22,358,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
The countries of former Yugoslavia are now much better off as independent, separate nations. That is actually a great example of what needs to happen in Africa - break up all these big countries and let the different ethnic groups form their own (smaller) countries.

For example, there wouldn't be this civil war in Mali right now if Bambara and Tauregs weren't forced to live in the same country together. That's actually the WHOLE POINT of the war - the Tuaregs want independence! This is the kind of stuff that was happening in Yugoslavia because the Bosnians didn't want to be ruled by the Serbs, etc. The Tuaregs don't want to be ruled by Bambara... so why was it acceptable to let Bosnians, Croatians, and Slovenians separate from Serbia, but it's not acceptable to let Tauregs, Fulani, and Dogons separate from Bambara? Just because the French drew some lines a couple hundred years ago?
Older post but great answer! Yugoslavia ended up like it did for exactly the same reasons. Outsiders drew the map of that country as well.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:22 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
Some of them are. Croatia and Slovenia are doing fine. Bosnia Herzegovina is a mess however--governed by three different presidents with the country basically split between a Bosniak/Croat territory and a Serb Territory. No one can agree on anything and the government is in gridlock when it comes to accomplishing anything. Kosovo is a huge question mark as well. While Tito was a dictator, while was in charge no one was given a chance to worry about all the stupid tribal/religious division in the former Yugoslav nations.

Basically countries that keep descending further into tribal politics and not global realities are often basically dividing themselves into smaller and weaker nations. Heard any exciting economic news out of East Timor lately? A better option for Africa would be more regional confederations of some of those smaller entities.
I think the time of the huge 19th century nation state has come and gone. I think you kind of nailed it here. Smaller nations are better I think but forming more loose confederation types are the key. The EU is basically a confederation in a sense and while it has it's issues, seems to be the best model in the 12st century. African nations can easily form a similar model as well.
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