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Old 08-04-2015, 10:12 PM
 
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Although Africa was a mess straight after the end of colonies, i would say today most African citizens have developed a national conciousness for the state and the state takes precedence over tribal interests. I would do one thing though and that is i would remove Spain from North Africa, give Eastern Ethiopia and North - eastern Kenya to Somalia as it's inhabited by Somalis whom have a hard time treated civilly in those countries.
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Old 08-06-2015, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Besieged View Post
give Eastern Ethiopia and North - eastern Kenya to Somalia as it's inhabited by Somalis whom have a hard time treated civilly in those countries.
Ethiopia - 90 million
Kenya - 46 million
Somalia - 11 million

Somalia is larger than Kenya.
Why not just move the Somalis from Ethiopia and Kenya to Somalia instead of giving away half of the land?
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Old 08-06-2015, 08:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post
Ethiopia - 90 million
Kenya - 46 million
Somalia - 11 million

Somalia is larger than Kenya.
Why not just move the Somalis from Ethiopia and Kenya to Somalia instead of giving away half of the land?
These people have been living on those lands for hundreds or even thousands of years. You cant just have them leave their homes and supply to go move somewhere else where they wont be as secure or as welcome. Another reason is that a good portion of the people living there are pastoralists, if they go to Somalia there wouldnt be enough land for the animals to graze.
There also political problems, a number of historic disputes had emerged when refugees from that place try to move into and occupy Somalian people's lands, conflict occured and eventually the ones from Ethiopia were expelled.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:02 PM
 
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Default Menelik II says no to Somalia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Besieged View Post
These people have been living on those lands for hundreds or even thousands of years. You cant just have them leave their homes and supply to go move somewhere else where they wont be as secure or as welcome. Another reason is that a good portion of the people living there are pastoralists, if they go to Somalia there wouldnt be enough land for the animals to graze.
There also political problems, a number of historic disputes had emerged when refugees from that place try to move into and occupy Somalian people's lands, conflict occured and eventually the ones from Ethiopia were expelled.

The Ethiopians had a badass Emperor back then named Menelik II, Europeans didn't dare to invade on his watch, i don't think he wouldn't have agreed with Somalia's claim, which was colonized by the european powers. Africa's fallen countries should be redrawn not the one who got away and stayed free from colonialism.
Attached Thumbnails
How would you redraw the map of Africa?-menelik-ii.jpg  
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautymustbeseen View Post
The Ethiopians had a badass Emperor back then named Menelik II, Europeans didn't dare to invade on his watch, i don't think he wouldn't have agreed with Somalia's claim, which was colonized by the european powers. Africa's fallen countries should be redrawn not the one who got away and stayed free from colonialism.
Well Menelik 2 wasnt so badass actually, he had hundreds of thousands of troops, most of them with guns when he defeated a poorly organised and led Italian force. He can claim credit that he expanded Ethiopia to it's current size today, but to do this he used gunpowder against the tribes, the forces he fought (whom wielded spears) didnt stand a chance.
I dont think non-colonised countries should be set to any different moral and legal position, if Ethiopia's border is unnatural or obtained through conquests we should be open to redrawing if the subjugated pop is unhappy. Your position is a perquisite for other problems such as war.

Last edited by Besieged; 08-06-2015 at 03:05 PM..
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:03 PM
 
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Remove the 2 legged animals and let the 4 legged ones take over!
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Old 08-06-2015, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
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Add Western Sahara, Northern Mauritania and Southwestern Algeria to Morocco.

Add parts of Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso, Togo and Benin to Ghana.
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Old 08-07-2015, 03:44 PM
 
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Wink Divided we fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Besieged View Post
Well Menelik 2 wasnt so badass actually, he had hundreds of thousands of troops, most of them with guns when he defeated a poorly organised and led Italian force. He can claim credit that he expanded Ethiopia to it's current size today, but to do this he used gunpowder against the tribes, the forces he fought (whom wielded spears) didnt stand a chance.
I dont think non-colonised countries should be set to any different moral and legal position, if Ethiopia's border is unnatural or obtained through conquests we should be open to redrawing if the subjugated pop is unhappy. Your position is a perquisite for other problems such as war.
Very well but that means that Africa overall should be divided into thousands tiny countries, that would be much easier to manipulate by larger powers outside the continent even more so than now. Also Somalia is divided in different regions with different clans who have no intent to join the central government, Somalilanders don't want to be part of Somalia. If it were up to me i would opt for larger fewer countries than thousands tribe or clan based countries.

Better have 10 large powerfull populous African countries than 54 make shift borders or 1000+ tribe nations.
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Old 08-07-2015, 10:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Beautymustbeseen View Post
[b]Very well but that means that Africa overall should be divided into thousands tiny countries, that would be much easier to manipulate by larger powers outside the continent even more so than now. Also Somalia is divided in different regions with different clans who have no intent to join the central government, Somalilanders don't want to be part of Somalia. If it were up to me i would opt for larger fewer countries than thousands tribe or clan based countries.
There are some nations whom you could split up along other lines, while nigerians for the most part have attained national conciousness towards their country the north and south still have strong cultural and religious differences that may emerge, however, as far as i know the people in the north are not clamouring for secession. As far as i'm aware there are few deep agitations for secession amongst most tribes in africa, tribes have for the most part taken a back seat.

You make a good point about Somalia itself being divided, i think the people in that region still should have the democratic right to decide their own fate, whether it's establishing their own nation or joining another is down to them. Their diplomatic representative was brutally supressed in the 90s when Ethiopia emerged from civil war and the people agitate for seccession.

Quote:
Better have 10 large powerfull populous African countries than 54 make shift borders or 1000+ tribe nations.
Well if it averts war than the people should have their wishes granted, you cannot force a people, it almost always has deeply ugly consequences that causes further friction between communities.
I think the prequisite for dividing should be based on interests, not every tribes wishes to seccede. Some want to dominate the state. most tribes are content on being content so long as they receive atleast the minimum representation and service.
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Old 09-21-2015, 05:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautymustbeseen View Post
Very well but that means that Africa overall should be divided into thousands tiny countries, that would be much easier to manipulate by larger powers outside the continent even more so than now. Also Somalia is divided in different regions with different clans who have no intent to join the central government, Somalilanders don't want to be part of Somalia. If it were up to me i would opt for larger fewer countries than thousands tribe or clan based countries.

Better have 10 large powerfull populous African countries than 54 make shift borders or 1000+ tribe nations.

I totally agree with you. Dividing Africa further in about 1000 tribe nations do not help. However, there are some countries that are very similar and can combine and make more powerful nations. Also need to get rid of some of the landlocked lands. Africa should be more like with several United States or EU type states

1. South Africa, Lesotho, Swaziland, Namibia, and Botswana should have been one country.

2. Zimbabwe, Zambia, and Malawi (although landlocked, it will have access to ports in South Africa, Mozambique, and Angola). It can also join South Africa once its economies are up to par- similar to what the EU did to later to join some Eastern European states.

3. Democratic Republic of Congo, Republic of Congo, Burundi

4.Ethiopia and Eritrea should get back together. The war was stupid. Together they are stronger.

5. Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, and Sao Tome and Principe

6. Central Africa, Cameroon (80% French part only), and southern Chad

7. Niger, Northern part of Nigeria, Eastern Chad, Mali, and Guinea. - Countries are home to the Fulani/Hausa peoples, all are Sunni Muslims, former Songhai Empire and sea access.

8. Southern Nigeria, Benin, and rejoined parts of English speaking Cameroon.

9. Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda, and South Sudan ( East African Union)

10. Sierra Leone and Liberia

11. Burkina Faso and Togo

12. Western Sahara vote to join Morocco or vote to be independent and enforced by the UN.

13. Senegal, Gambia, Cape Verdes, and Guinea Bissau

14. Algeria, Libya, Mali, Niger, and Burkina Faso give Tuaregs self-governance within the territories in each country and a seat in parliament in each country to represent Tuareg peoples. Tuareg peoples are nomads and an independent state in the Sahara desert is useless - similar to a Utah for Mormons or indigenous people in the amazon countries like Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, Guyana in South America.

English and French are already the official languages in almost all African countries and both are widely taught for commerce. Portuguese countries like Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, and Sao Tome already learn French as a second official language since they are in a French dominant zone. Same thing happens in Spanish speaking Equatorial Guinea and English speaking Nigeria where French is a mandatory 2nd language subject.
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