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Old 04-06-2013, 08:35 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
So yours is a single-issue concern, and the only way in which you feel that African women are too dominated as a whole is the residual practice of genital mutilation in a few (and declining number of) localities? And you will stop feeling that African women are too dominated only when the last remaining circumcision knife is buried forever?

If I'm not mistaken, genital mutilation of African girls is typically carried out behind closed doors by the elder women of the household or community, with no men present. At least until the 1970's, by the way, female circumcision was still commonly practiced even among the educated and affluent in metropolitan Cairo, which I don't consider to be truly African in the sense of this discussion.

Following your direction here, it is easy to find porn sites on the internet what portray women "enjoying the sex act" even with anal penetration, without any contact with parts that may or may not have been surgically mutilated where women are "too dominated". However, I cannot vouch for this through any personal experience or observation.

Incidentally, since the pornography industry is predominantly centered outside Africa, might this not suggest that African women are not so dominated, comparatively speaking, as this thread might seem to imply? It could be the very "superstition and customs" of Africa that protect women from exploitation and the harmful effects of an "educated and tolerant" society.
Yes, indeed the mutilation is carried out by women, the ritual is maintained by women. But I don't think it was women that originally came up with the idea of cutting off parts of themselves. They just maintain the tradition of thinking that women need to be inferior and obedient, without really knowing why. That happens with so many rituals and customs. They are maintained because people are too stupid or scared to simply challenge and abandon a ritual or custom.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Yes, indeed the mutilation is carried out by women, the ritual is maintained by women. But I don't think it was women that originally came up with the idea of cutting off parts of themselves. They just maintain the tradition of thinking that women need to be inferior and obedient, without really knowing why. That happens with so many rituals and customs. They are maintained because people are too stupid or scared to simply challenge and abandon a ritual or custom.
So you and AnnieA, who seem to be carrying this thread, both concur that genital mutilation is the only evidence worth noting that "African women are too dominated"? And that this topic is simply about female genital mutilation?

Do you have any statistical data on how many African women are, in the 21st century, being circumcised? Or any other informati0n about the role of women in African society or economics or politics, vis-a-vis their non-African counterparts?

If you want to argue that female genital mutilation is a barbaric custom that enlightened people ought to be discouraged from perpetrating, you have no argument from me. But it is quite a leap to equate that with the position that the women of an entire continent are too dominated merely because of the lingering presence of that custom in some localities. Women in Africa, vocal and articulate and unafraid, are speaking out against the practice.

Last edited by jtur88; 04-06-2013 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:58 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Oh no, I never said this is the only thing that is wrong regarding this topic.
Nor am I carrying this thread

Africa is largely a very conservative place, much like Arab and some Asian countries in this respect. Men and women have their roles to play, roles that are expected from them based on tradition, which in some cases sucks.

Africa is huge, some parts are much better for women than others.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post

Africa is largely a very conservative place, much like Arab and some Asian countries in this respect. Men and women have their roles to play, roles that are expected from them based on tradition, which in some cases sucks.
Would you say that conservative America "sucked" when men and women had their roles to play, based on tradition, before World War II? When my mother stayed home and took care of the household duties including child care, while my dad brought his paycheck home and handed it to my mother who also exercised responsibility for the household's economy? When women could walk the streets safely without being hooted at, insulted, or worse? Where prepubescent girls were not under pressure from their peers, their media and their mothers to sexualize their demeanor, with thousands of leering "friends" following them on facebook? Where women were not abandoned into a system in which they were expected to earn their own way with corporate empires greedily exploiting their 9-to-5's and no other means of support short of being labeled welfare-queens? Or go tens of thousands of dollars into student-loan debt just to keep afloat?
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:12 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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You seem to be unhappy about modern times in general, glorifying the past and condemning the present. Some of the stuff you mention does not have to do with women alone, like the student loans for instance.
And yes, I don't like any conservative society, even today the US is a rather conservative country in my view. I don't think I would be happy living there except maybe on some progressive island like Seattle.
Plus, you forgot to mention all the negative aspects of life in the past. Women were totally dependent on their husbands, thus forced to stay with them even if they wanted to get divorced. Even in some Western countries women could not do anything without asking their husbands for permission...
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,241,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
You seem to be unhappy about modern times in general, glorifying the past and condemning the present. Some of the stuff you mention does not have to do with women alone, like the student loans for instance.
And yes, I don't like any conservative society, even today the US is a rather conservative country in my view. I don't think I would be happy living there except maybe on some progressive island like Seattle.
Plus, you forgot to mention all the negative aspects of life in the past. Women were totally dependent on their husbands, thus forced to stay with them even if they wanted to get divorced. Even in some Western countries women could not do anything without asking their husbands for permission...
But don't lose sight of the fact that people are largely a product of their cultural upbringing. You were brought up in a society in which women took certain rights and obligations for granted, and you learned continuously from an early age to flourish in that environment. But to grab a women off the streets of a town in Sudan and tell her she has to get a student loan because her husband is likely to abandon her, and she better get a boob job as a backup just in case, she might think that is an unwelcome imposition on the cultural traditions that she and her peers have learned to feel comfortable with. What you would feel happy with doesn't have anything to do with life in Sudan.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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I don't see anyone telling them to do those things...
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: West Coast
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[quote=Neuling;28980417]I don't believe in Karma at all. Just think of the Germans, they should be down for centuries after what they did, but instead they are one of the most successful countries again...
Nor do I think that Africans are paying for their involvement in slave trade or whatever. They have been and will continue to be punished for their incapacity to withstand and compete with the West and these days the Chinese. It's evolution in action, cold, merciless and without any goal or morals.[/QUOTE

Africa existed before the West. Africans were doing fine until they came into contact with Europeans. Europeans wanted their land, and used murder, and thievery to get it.
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:17 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,383 posts, read 19,304,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy74 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't believe in Karma at all. Just think of the Germans, they should be down for centuries after what they did, but instead they are one of the most successful countries again...
Nor do I think that Africans are paying for their involvement in slave trade or whatever. They have been and will continue to be punished for their incapacity to withstand and compete with the West and these days the Chinese. It's evolution in action, cold, merciless and without any goal or morals.
Africa existed before the West. Africans were doing fine until they came into contact with Europeans. Europeans wanted their land, and used murder, and thievery to get it.
Whatever Africa was in the past, it fell behind other continents somehow. And back in the times when war was the rule rather than the exception, falling behind others and resting on one's laurels was fatal. I am not defending what happened, quite to the contrary, but still, it happened...
Fact is, Africans were not able to expel the foreigners or keep them from entering in the first place. By the time global civilization had advanced enough to bring about the end of colonialism, it was too late, the damage was done and its consequences are still haunting Africa.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:38 PM
 
6,559 posts, read 9,070,030 times
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Check this out. It's about 30min long but interesting.




SaharaTV explores Female Genital Mutilation - YouTube
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