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Old 04-24-2013, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
229 posts, read 278,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
The Ashanti, the tribe I belong to were major slave exporters, it was their biggest source of foreign exchange.
Thanks for the reply. Some Black Americans who've traced their African origins to Africa have found they have Ashanti ancestry. My question is, did the the Ashanti sell their own people to the slave colonies or did they lose their own people to both war and slave merchants?
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
229 posts, read 278,718 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Honestly Africans can be very classist and can pick up on your status based on a few words. My guess you are educated and speak well and thus are treated well. Others probably fit the stereotype of urban Blacks and most Africans would have little use for them. Since they're not weighed down by political correctness they may speak their mind.
How can Africans be "classist" when they're immigrating to the west where Black Americans fought for civil rights and equality in order to achieve a better quality of life? Having a classist attitude towards Black Americans is both perplexing and irritating. It's not like there's a great African nation in contemporary era held to as higher standard of living and opportunities where all Blacks in the West are striving to achieve.

Your previous post noted that most Africans aren't open with their unfavorable views on Black Americans, yet west African immigrants in particular are coming from third world countries. Last time I checked, western Blacks are not immigrating to west African countries for better opportunities. It's laughable for west Africans to have such a "classist" attitude towards Black Americans given the state of their individual nation's economies, political and social systems. No, I've found a few Africans do not care whether or not a Black American is educated and well established in their field because it's all about presenting themselves as "the better black person" to white westerners. It's funny because most whites seemingly do not care either way nor seem to have a favorable view of African immigrants anymore than they do Black Americans since most western whites share cultural experiences, either good or bad, with western Blacks.

Given tribal civil wars, corrupt governments, poverts, faminine, slow economic development of certain west African countries, perhaps most Africans should re-assess projecting classism to Black Americans since many have not lived in west African societies since their ancestors were stolen, captured, and sold to the colonies. Competing with Black Americans who are descendants of enslaved Africans sold to the colonies by certain west African and Arab slave merchants and chiefs during the Atlantic slave trade are the least of west African's classist problems.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,627 posts, read 16,505,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freespiritbty View Post
Thanks for the reply. Some Black Americans who've traced their African origins to Africa have found they have Ashanti ancestry. My question is, did the the Ashanti sell their own people to the slave colonies or did they lose their own people to both war and slave merchants?
Hard to say but I'd gather the Ashantis sold were a mixture of both groups you've mentioned. I do know that Ashanti heritage among American Blacks is relatively low. Jamaicans and the British Caribbean islands appear to be the major destination for slaves from the Ghana and the Ashanti empire.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,627 posts, read 16,505,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freespiritbty View Post
How can Africans be "classist" when they're immigrating to the west where Black Americans fought for civil rights and equality in order to achieve a better quality of life? Having a classist attitude towards Black Americans is both perplexing and irritating. It's not like there's a great African nation in contemporary era held to as higher standard of living and opportunities where all Blacks in the West are striving to achieve.

Your previous post noted that most Africans aren't open with their unfavorable views on Black Americans, yet west African immigrants in particular are coming from third world countries. Last time I checked, western Blacks are not immigrating to west African countries for better opportunities. It's laughable for west Africans to have such a "classist" attitude towards Black Americans given the state of their individual nation's economies, political and social systems. No, I've found a few Africans do not care whether or not a Black American is educated and well established in their field because it's all about presenting themselves as "the better black person" to white westerners. It's funny because most whites seemingly do not care either way nor seem to have a favorable view of African immigrants anymore than they do Black Americans since most western whites share cultural experiences, either good or bad, with western Blacks.

Given tribal civil wars, corrupt governments, poverts, faminine, slow economic development of certain west African countries, perhaps most Africans should re-assess projecting classism to Black Americans since many have not lived in west African societies since their ancestors were stolen, captured, and sold to the colonies. Competing with Black Americans who are descendants of enslaved Africans sold to the colonies by certain west African and Arab slave merchants and chiefs during the Atlantic slave trade are the least of west African's classist problems.
Hard to argue with your condemnation of Western Africa but frankly African Americans enjoy a higher standard of living merely because they live in the wealthiest country in the world, which was developed by White people. So lets not get too smug.

I think the negative attitudes stem from the interactions many Africans have with lower class Black Americans (btw it's not just Africans but many immigrant groups who have negative views of African Americans) when they first arrive and some of the cultural mores they practice.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,907 posts, read 6,146,010 times
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This has been a most interesting discussion and I am learning.....I appreciate the contributions by most in this thread. Thx.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:52 PM
 
74 posts, read 172,256 times
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In my experience, African aloofness to African Americans is not without cause.

Trust me - this is a two-way street and African Americans exhibit far more disdain towards Africans than vice versa. From AA kids bullying their African counterparts at school to African American celebrities having a smart word or two to say about Africans. Saying that an AA looks African is considered an insult in the AA community.


I would love for the gap between Africans and their American cousins to be closed, and admit that Africans are culpable to an extent.

But AAs should stop playing the victim and take responsibility for the role they play in the divide.

We are all adults here.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:15 PM
 
74 posts, read 172,256 times
Reputation: 107
African Americans fought for civil rights and privileges in an already established/Eurocentric framework. Africans in Africa did not operate within the same parameter even when disadvantaged because of the power imbalance inherent in colonialism. I am not excusing the shortcomings of the continent but individual African families who choose to better and enrich themselves (legally) should be allowed to do so. Even you would exploit a system if you knew that it would favor you.

Africans who want a better life will find a way elsewhere...even if America practiced segregation today and closed its borders to Black foreigners.

They owe you nothing at the end of the day since they come here and start from the ground up, endure insults from American natives, and work tirelessly for every single penny they earn.

Also, not all Africans who go to school or work in the US do so on Affirmative action.

"International students" (even those on from Africa) on a visa for instance pay over 3 times the tuition that their American counterparts do and many of these students come from struggling middle-class families (based in Africa) who desperately do what they can to put their kids through university.

Also, since they are neither citizens nor green card holders they are held to the same standards as Caucasians and Asians in college admissions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freespiritbty View Post
How can Africans be "classist" when they're immigrating to the west where Black Americans fought for civil rights and equality in order to achieve a better quality of life? Having a classist attitude towards Black Americans is both perplexing and irritating. It's not like there's a great African nation in contemporary era held to as higher standard of living and opportunities where all Blacks in the West are striving to achieve.

Your previous post noted that most Africans aren't open with their unfavorable views on Black Americans, yet west African immigrants in particular are coming from third world countries. Last time I checked, western Blacks are not immigrating to west African countries for better opportunities. It's laughable for west Africans to have such a "classist" attitude towards Black Americans given the state of their individual nation's economies, political and social systems. No, I've found a few Africans do not care whether or not a Black American is educated and well established in their field because it's all about presenting themselves as "the better black person" to white westerners. It's funny because most whites seemingly do not care either way nor seem to have a favorable view of African immigrants anymore than they do Black Americans since most western whites share cultural experiences, either good or bad, with western Blacks.

Given tribal civil wars, corrupt governments, poverts, faminine, slow economic development of certain west African countries, perhaps most Africans should re-assess projecting classism to Black Americans since many have not lived in west African societies since their ancestors were stolen, captured, and sold to the colonies. Competing with Black Americans who are descendants of enslaved Africans sold to the colonies by certain west African and Arab slave merchants and chiefs during the Atlantic slave trade are the least of west African's classist problems.

Last edited by Mantana; 04-26-2013 at 09:25 PM..
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:39 PM
 
74 posts, read 172,256 times
Reputation: 107
@Topic,

Slave kingdoms in West Africa included the Ashanti, Oyo, Dahomey, Benin (in Nigeria), and Efik.

Arochukwu was another economy that thrived on slave trade but it was not a kingdom.
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:14 AM
 
8,227 posts, read 10,850,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantana View Post
African Americans fought for civil rights and privileges in an already established/Eurocentric framework. Africans in Africa did not operate within the same parameter even when disadvantaged because of the power imbalance inherent in colonialism. I am not excusing the shortcomings of the continent but individual African families who choose to better and enrich themselves (legally) should be allowed to do so. Even you would exploit a system if you knew that it would favor you.

Africans who want a better life will find a way elsewhere...even if America practiced segregation today and closed its borders to Black foreigners.

They owe you nothing at the end of the day since they come here and start from the ground up, endure insults from American natives, and work tirelessly for every single penny they earn.

Also, not all Africans who go to school or work in the US do so on Affirmative action.

"International students" (even those on from Africa) on a visa for instance pay over 3 times the tuition that their American counterparts do and many of these students come from struggling middle-class families (based in Africa) who desperately do what they can to put their kids through university.

Also, since they are neither citizens nor green card holders they are held to the same standards as Caucasians and Asians in college admissions.
I think she means that without the Civil Rights Act,many African immigrants wouldn't have been allowed to come to America in the first place.
I believe some racist southern whites would have treated Africans the same as AA.

You have to remember,there are still black americans that are alive who remember lynchings,segregation,and were born 3/5 of a human(that was banned in 1965,as blacks were considered before that as 3/5 of a human.)

So really,in 1961, they were about equal. African countries were not independent,and AA were what I said above.

As far as Africans getting teased at school,well everyone does. Its just part of American culture believe it or not.
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:55 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
229 posts, read 278,718 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantana View Post
African Americans fought for civil rights and privileges in an already established/Eurocentric framework. Africans in Africa did not operate within the same parameter even when disadvantaged because of the power imbalance inherent in colonialism. I am not excusing the shortcomings of the continent but individual African families who choose to better and enrich themselves (legally) should be allowed to do so. Even you would exploit a system if you knew that it would favor you.

Africans who want a better life will find a way elsewhere...even if America practiced segregation today and closed its borders to Black foreigners.

They owe you nothing at the end of the day since they come here and start from the ground up, endure insults from American natives, and work tirelessly for every single penny they earn.

Also, not all Africans who go to school or work in the US do so on Affirmative action.

"International students" (even those on from Africa) on a visa for instance pay over 3 times the tuition that their American counterparts do and many of these students come from struggling middle-class families (based in Africa) who desperately do what they can to put their kids through university.

Also, since they are neither citizens nor green card holders they are held to the same standards as Caucasians and Asians in college admissions.
Nevertheless, BLACK Americans fought for racial equality and ending segregating, and it wasn't Africans allowed to immigrate to Americas en masse until after the '60's because of Civil Rights.

And yes, Africans, especially Black Africans most certainly do owe Black Americans respect for fighting for equality because it certainly wasn't your kinfolk doing fighting for civil rights here in America. Black Americans did the heavy lifting as a minority so African immigrants can reap the benefits. But like most opportunists, you'll arrogantly reap the benefits of freedom while having the audacity to snub your nose at Black Americans.

Bad move.

Don't speculate on whether or not I would exploit a system to favor me because that wasn't how I was raised. This is the difference between you and I. Your snide comment is exactly on par with many arrogant and seemingly ignorant Africans who haven't learned Black History in America. Otherwise, you wouldn't operate under the delusion you're more industrious than American Blacks. Which ever country you are from, you simply are leaving your a third world country, where the majority was black, was colonized by white minorities, then un-colonized as early as the '60's. Black Americans, in particular, are not breaking their necks to immigrate to whichever African nation for better opportunities. No, and I'll most certainly not allow you to down play the hundreds of years my ancestors worked for racial equality, fairness, and civil rights, and contributing to the infrastructure of America, and accomplishments hard fought by Black Americans. Don't even think of being dismissive with me because many of my family members were actively involved in the civil rights movement.

Africans immigrating to any country for their better life are taking a financial risk and being classified as international students is part of risky endeavors. Don't give me your tale of woe about immigrants struggling because that is nothing new for all Black Americans. The difference is my people already know the story of struggle and working hard from the ground up, and striven to overcome everything this country tried to threw at Black Americans. There is no amount of complaining or whining from the immigrants will move me. This is why most Black Americans aren't impressed with African immigrants bragging about their flimsy accomplishments like a weapon against Black Americans. For most of us, we can see where it was easy for certain African nations to sell each other in slavery to the colonists without remorse.

The majority of Black Americans grandparents, great grandparents were dirt poor, living through Jim Crow and debt peonage in the South, worked 2-3 jobs to raise their family and buy their own homes. Again, immigrants should learn history instead of operating under this ignorance that Black Americans are lazy. No one is immigrating to Africa for a better life, but most Africans are immigrating to America, and that says more about you than vice verse. Most Black Americans like my grandparents were part of the Black Migration from South to the North during the '50's and they worked and all owned their own homes, so miss me with your "we have to pay 3x's more in tuition because most of us came from middle class families". Oh well, it's a shame African countries don't have world class universities rivaling the west. And the majority of Black Americans are taking out loans to pay for their education, so no, not moved because you have to pay higher cost of tuition. It is what it is.

Let's not act like Africans entering the workforce are subjected to "Affirmative Action" under "diversity". Nice try and FAIL at inferring Africans don't need "Affirmative Action" due to coming to a new country like America and working from the ground up.

Oh and cry me a river about being teased in school. You actually think you were singled out because you were "African"? LOL! Everyone, no matter what race, ethnicity, class, etc., are is teased in school. EVERYBODY.
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