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Old 05-23-2013, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,577 posts, read 2,437,292 times
Reputation: 2743

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peer79 View Post
As others have stated there is a clear linguistic and demographic difference in the north of Africa as opposed to the populations south of the Saharan desert (Sub-Saharan populations). That is really all there is to it. There is no negative connotation attached to the term. It is used to define different regions and from that point can be further used to identify different populations of people.

The problem some have with the term, in my personal experience always black Americans, is that it does not fit into the mindset of Afrocentrism. This movement, which arose out of the black identity and empowerment movements of the 1960's and 1970's seeks to cast North Africa as "black", specifically the civilization of Ancient Egypt. While, I do not want to discuss the validity of Afrocentrism at this time, it will be sufficient to say that it not accepted by mainstream scholars. It is often described as feel-good history. That is the root of some people's problem with this phrase.

Somewhere upthread, someone asked why is Europe not similarly divided into regions and different population groups? The simple answer is Europe already is. For example, historians and anthropologists have already established base cultural and ethnic subsets among Europeans: Celtic, Latin, Nordic, Germanic, Slavic, etc. More germane to the thread though, the European Union and UN divide the continent of Europe, and all continents for that matter, into regional groupings. The simple fact is there is no geographical boundary in Europe akin to the Saharan desert which seems to keep populations separated to such a degree along ethnic and cultural lines. I believe the same poster asked why are European Mediterraneans still considered "white." White and black are modern, subjective terms. Some may feel that Greeks or Italians are not as "white" as Swedes or Danes. Some may think that Meds are just as "white" as Nordics. Those subjective terms are ultimately irrelevant. It is accepted that there is variation among the different ethnic groups within the continent of Europe.

If it makes someone feel better to pretend that a Bantu language speaker from the Congo is the same culturally and ethnically as a Moroccan or Egyptian that is their prerogative. Unfortunately, actual scholarship does not support such a view.
Both ignorant and incorrect. For one, stop trying to assume other peoples ethnicity, as you are incorrect at least in my case. Your post simply states to me that you and others have difficulty recognizing different cultures outside of color. A Congolese Bantu language speakers certainly different culturally/ethnically from a Moroccan or an Egyptian. Just recognition of their nationalities should be indication enough and then there are ethnic/cultural terms within each group that are sufficient. Just admit that some of you are simply very attached to color labels. IMO, North Africa is not "black"...it's simply North Africa. The same goes for West Africa, East Africa etc.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,577 posts, read 2,437,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Yeah, in first bold, I think Senagelese historian Cheikh Anta Diop was the one who first brought this to light. At the least, he was one of the firsts.

On the second bold. I HATE the term Black Africa. Do we hear Yellow Asian or White Europe or Brown Mexican, or w/e. Why must African always put the color before Black. Not to mention a great portion, if not the majority of Black people around the world especially in the US isn't even Black. We come in many different shades from brown to copper to mahogany, etc.
Exactly.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,281,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
It is a very racist term to separate Africans from other Africans. A true African should never accept that term, it is an insult!
Africans, then, to you, are merely people who live on a certain tectonic plate floating on a molten geological sea for the past 100-million years or so.

You are being racist yourself (an insult) to suggest that Africans are somehow unlike non-Africans, but like each other enough to be collectively called Africans.

Aside from the land mass their ancestors were born on, please explain the difference between a "true African" and a non-African. You want to say that Africans are different from other people, but the same as each other. That is an unsupportable contention.

Last edited by jtur88; 05-23-2013 at 09:47 AM..
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:51 AM
 
254 posts, read 440,929 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
Both ignorant and incorrect. For one, stop trying to assume other peoples ethnicity, as you are incorrect at least in my case. Your post simply states to me that you and others have difficulty recognizing different cultures outside of color. A Congolese Bantu language speakers certainly different culturally/ethnically from a Moroccan or an Egyptian. Just recognition of their nationalities should be indication enough and then there are ethnic/cultural terms within each group that are sufficient. Just admit that some of you are simply very attached to color labels. IMO, North Africa is not "black"...it's simply North Africa. The same goes for West Africa, East Africa etc.
Where in my post did I make any assumption about someone's ethnicity, specifically yours? Your response makes it obvious that you are framing this thread about the term Sub-Saharan Africa within a confined racial framework, comprised of your notions of race which you would like to promote. How do I have "difficulty recognizing different cultures outside of color?" I described how there are subsets of ethnic/cultural groups within the continent of Europe which are all considered European. The same concept can be applied to all other continents, i.e. there are different ethnic and cultural groups within the continent of Africa, yet they can all be technically considered African. Yet, they are not all the same, regardless of color.

In order to view these matters objectively it is necessary to remove one's emotional baggage.

Last edited by Peer79; 05-23-2013 at 09:52 AM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,577 posts, read 2,437,292 times
Reputation: 2743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peer79 View Post
Where in my post did I make any assumption about someone's ethnicity, specifically yours? Your response makes it obvious that you are framing this thread about the term Sub-Saharan Africa within a confined racial framework, comprised of your notions of race which you would like to promote. How do I have "difficulty recognizing different cultures outside of color?" I described how there are subsets of ethnic/cultural groups within the continent of Europe which are all considered European. The same concept can be applied to all other continents, i.e. there are different ethnic and cultural groups within the continent of Africa, yet they can all be technically considered African. Yet, they are not all the same, regardless of color.

In order to view these matters objectively it is necessary to remove one's emotional baggage.
The bold seemed evident in your post and your attempt to classify people with a differing perspective in this thread. That's how your statements came off. The term can be both geographical AND racial in usage...and they are most certainly used as both. It's telling when people attempt to deny that.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
889 posts, read 1,015,741 times
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Where did the term 'Sub-Saharan Africa' come from?

Uhm, because "sub" means below, and it is referring to the part that is south of (below) the Sahara.... how does this thread have 10 pages about this? lol
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:43 PM
 
254 posts, read 440,929 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
The bold seemed evident in your post and your attempt to classify people with a differing perspective in this thread. That's how your statements came off. The term can be both geographical AND racial in usage...and they are most certainly used as both. It's telling when people attempt to deny that.
I think my point has been made. I am not interested in promoting or contradicting any racial notions some people may have attached to the term.

I think Joules MSU has it right (one post above mine.) It is below (sub) the Saharan desert.

If I wanted to spend more time on this, I could come up with a plethora of similarly named geographic regions. Off the top of my head: Baja California, which means lower California in Spanish. Lower is a lot like sub, huh?
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,634 posts, read 27,069,277 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
To make this even more interesting, the term "Africa" could possibly have Latin, Arabic, Berber and other roots. So, even the origin of the name of the continent isn't completely clear.

I believe that "Bantu" may be a better, all incompassing term and it is translated to mean "people, human or mankind". It is also the case with the term Inuit(aka Eskimo).
The name of the continent is cloudy indeed. Some say it's a corruption of the word Afuraka. Some say it comes from Sciopio Africanus. As for the name, like I said earlier in a post, I've read Alkebulan, Ethiopia (yes as in the name of the entire continent), TaMeri, KMT, and a couple others but I can't think of them right now.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,431 posts, read 11,933,106 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
To make this even more interesting, the term "Africa" could possibly have Latin, Arabic, Berber and other roots. So, even the origin of the name of the continent isn't completely clear.
Africa, IIRC, meant what's now considered Libya, but came to be the name of all of North Africa in antiquity, and later the whole continent. Much like how Asia was originally the term for modern day Turkey.

Regardless, as I said up thread, African is not a racial term. Africa is the only continent which had indigenous populations from all major racial groups.

San:



Pygmy:



West African:



East African:



Caucasian:



Asian:



African is a geographic term, not a racial term.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,471,112 times
Reputation: 5401
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Africa, IIRC, meant what's now considered Libya, but came to be the name of all of North Africa in antiquity, and later the whole continent. Much like how Asia was originally the term for modern day Turkey.

Regardless, as I said up thread, African is not a racial term. Africa is the only continent which had indigenous populations from all major racial groups.

San:



Pygmy:



West African:



East African:



Caucasian:



Asian:



African is a geographic term, not a racial term.
So African American isn't a racial term?
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